Girl Talk: Taking Center Stage - Part 2

Here it is, part 2 of my conversation with actor and advocate Sofiya Cheyenne. In part 2 we discuss accessibility backstage and behind the scenes and the representation (or lack thereof) of people with disabilities and dwarfism in the media.

JILLIAN: Wow.

I want to go back to accessibility, especially because I feel like in today’s current social climate there is a push for theater to be more diverse and more accessible. Being in the audience, knowing that these theaters are very old and are protected, they are not accessible. One time I was told that the handicap bathroom was across the street in another building four stories up. I was like, “It’s intermission. I’ve got ten minutes and there is no way,” and the ushers looked at me not knowing what to do. They assumed, up until someone brought it up, that that solution was okay.

What is it like backstage? Is it accessible? Also what is it like working with the other artists and the creative team?

SOFIYA: Oh my gosh, there is so much to say. First, I’ll talk about the audience experience because with a lot of these theaters that are protected in New York City , most of them try to be as welcoming and inclusive as they can, but there is still a long way to go There might be a set of three to four wheelchair accessible seats in different sections of the house. Usually just on the 1st floor. And maybe there is an accessible bathroom if you’re lucky. Since the ADA was signed in 1990, and because of TDF (Theatre Development Fund: a non-profit that works to make theatre affordable and accessible) and TKTS (an organization that sell tickets to Broadway, Off-Broadway, and West-End shows at a discounted rate) Broadway is more inclusive. For example, shows will offer captioning and audio descriptions, hearing devices and sensory performances etc. So lots of focus on audience experience. What we don’t see is any focus on the disabled actors' experience. Many times, if there is a disabled role in a show an able-bodied person plays those parts. Theatres feel there is no need to give any focus to the disabled actor because we aren't being hired in the first place.

From an actor’s perspective and behind the scenes and behind the stage, it is still very, very inaccessible.

There’s a lot of things to dissect here. In an ideal world when I get hired for a job, the director and I form a great relationship and we can talk through design and accommodations openly throughout the rehearsal and run of the show. But, they need to be open minded and willing to listen. For example, during one show I did in college, the set designer asked me if I could go up steps I explained to him that I could walk up steps but I don’t want to climb too many, and if they were lower or shorter steps then that could be doable. His set design included a bunch of levels and these huge staircases. Long story short, he thought about me first and asked for my input before he designed his set. He and the director then worked to make my walking track throughout the show totally accessible to me.

On that same show all of the dressing rooms were up two flights of stairs. Production and stage management made me a dressing room right behind the stage. That is an example of a really good design/director/actor relationship that could make someone feel welcomed and part of the show. I will also say that people do not realize that the cost of accommodations, in terms of time and money, is no greater than what would be spent on an able-bodied actor. I emphasize that point because that is always the argument I hear: It’s going to cost more money or put us (the show) at risk of a lawsuit.

Design also includes costume. I’ve always tried to tell the costume designer that if you say we need five sessions, I’m going to say we need two extra . They never believe me, but it always happens and I get to say I told you so. I also tell them to get me three different pairs of shoes, just in case. I give those warnings and explain it would be easier on all of us if we have those two extra sessions because it always happens that during tech week they are still sewing my costume while I’m on stage.

Moral of the story, if you cast anyone with a disability in your show, try to include them in the conversations of design.

Going back to the dressing rooms, they are often not accessible which is why it is important to have a good and productive relationship with stage and production management. If the green room (a room backstage where actors can hang out and relax) is up two flights of stairs, I’ve asked for a minifridge in the dressing room that is downstairs. Furthermore, because I’m smaller, I’ll tell stage management to invest in a 50 pack of command hooks and we’ll just put them throughout the dressing room. They love that suggestion and it costs about $5.

It is different when you have a wheelchair or other mobility device. I use a scooter part-time and I will always ask for a place to park my scooter. At first, they (production and stage management) will suggest that I put it in the back of the box office. I have to remind them that I can’t get through the door. We do eventually find a solution. At the end of the day, when it comes to accessibility, I’m not afraid to ask for what I need. I think that I ask for reasonable accommodations that will make my job easier and help serve the show and the story. That goes for TV and film as well.

JILLIAN: I was going to ask about the accessibility of TV and film sets.

SOFIYA: I think the biggest difference is that TV and film sets often use trailers rather than dressing rooms, especially if they are not shot in a studio. Trailers have steps which can be tough but I’ve been able to manage. When I become a lead in a show they will have a trailer that is lower and I can just roll right in. Haha! Until then, when you play a character that is in one episode for two pages, you’re not going to get an accessible trailer, they might put you in some other room that isn’t like a trailer. Unfortunately I have heard from wheelchair user friends of mine that they have been put in a small closet next to the bathroom. These are not accommodations that are helpful or supportive to the actor. So much work, we still need to do.

That being said, it is absolutely possible. When consulting, I always say that you have to put a line in the budget for accommodations. If you do that then it is never an issue later on. It really does not have to be more than $500, give or take. That is the best initial solution: before you go into production or you start telling your designers to execute the concept, have that line in your budget just in case an accommodation is needed.

At the very minimum I’ve asked if I can have a footstool and one has always been provided. I’m lucky because as an LP and that’s the easiest accommodation one can ask for. Furthermore, it is also the easiest way to open the door, expand their minds and have them realize that I may need more than a footstool later on. My footstool is the best little way to start the conversation without jumping in headfirst. Did I answer your question?

JILLIAN: You most certainly did. And I don’t think people realize that reasonable accommodations cost very little. Like you said, it is just buying command hooks or a footstool. I think people think there has to be a whole production when making accommodations when it doesn’t have to be.

SOFIYA: I think so as well. Also, from what I’m understanding in the conversations I’ve been having recently is that there is such a huge fear of messing up or saying the wrong thing. My response is that the only way we are going to learn, embrace and become more inclusive, is to try, to fail, to be wrong, to have the conversations and learn from them. It’s really okay to admit that you don’t have all the answers, especially when disability has not been a part of the conversation as much as it should be. How can we really fault too harshly on the not knowing because we haven’t invested time and resources into true inclusion?

In regards to disability as a whole, whether you are an actor or you are the guy that works in a cubicle in the corporate world, reasonable accommodations need to be thought of before someone says something is wrong. Disability and inclusion need to be a part of the fabric, part of the design, part of the entryway into everything. If we start to think of it like that, if we start to think of it proactively rather than reactively then we can dodge the issues that might come up before they happen.. To me, it’s about the proactive piece. Let this be a part of the thought process before you start casting people. Make sure that you think about bringing in an advisor. Make sure that you are reaching out to the agents and casting directors that have actors with disabilities in their circle. Make sure the actor is included in the conversation about design and workspace. Accessibility has got to be a part of that initial planning of a show, a movie, or a production.

JILLIAN: That segues perfectly into the next couple questions I have for you. Do you think that actors with dwarfism or other disabilities are being given a fair chance to be seen? Are there equal opportunities in the industry?

SOFIYA: I’m going to speak specifically to dwarfism for a second because I feel like us LPs are really at the bottom of the bottom of the list. Quickly, when people think of disability in general, they think of the person in a wheelchair or on crutches or someone who is blind or deaf. I’m sure you’ve had this said to you before, “Oh, you don’t have a disability, you’re just short.”

JILLIAN: Yes, I have.

SOFIYA: It’s a little more than that, but thanks for only seeing my height.

I feel like there are not enough LP specific roles that are written. Moreover, I feel like when and if there is a role for a person with a disability, little people are still not really considered. We are in this grey area that doesn’t really have a type except for the stereotypes which are being an elf at Christmas, a leprechaun at St. Patty’s Day, or a character in the mythical and fantasy/sci-fi genres. Those opportunities are always out there. LP specific roles that exist are still stereotypical, there is still a stigma around dwarfism, and most of the time you really don’t see the actor’s face. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve auditioned for things where I have to cover my face. I realize that they are really looking to cast me for my body.

However, I do feel like disability as a whole is being more accepted in Hollywood and theater. I think that opportunities are coming more and more.The agency and the casting directors are really listening. They are starting to bring people with disabilities in, getting them seen, and getting them an audition. But, we still need our directors and producers. We need the top dogs to buy into this idea and see disabled actors as worthy talent. The next step is getting the producers and directors to say, “I can see this person in my show and I don’t see all the dollar bills that come with all the accommodations.”

Yes, I definitely see the positive change and I feel like more opportunities are available. There are more people buying into the idea of seeing disabled actors on stage and screen, but there is still a lot more work to do. I’ll say one more thing. I would love to see more disabled people behind the scenes as well, like you. What you’re doing is awesome and that’s what needs to happen. Someone with your voice needs to be on the other side of the table saying, “No, give that person an opportunity. Why not? What do we have to lose?”

JILLIAN: Exactly.

SOFIYA: Including more people with dwarfism, with disabilities in agencies or casting or as writers or producers is where the real change happens and we need to see more of that.

JILLIAN: Agreed, 100%.

Now, looking at the other side of it, do you feel the portrayal of disabilities on stage and screen is accurate?

SOFIYA: I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but this Christmas season there were no LPs in any commercials. There were no LPs in any Christmas commercials in the way it used to be. There was one commercial, which I’m sure you remember, from Amazon where there was an LP which was so cool. I actually had a conversation with someone who said, “Oh, she (the LP in the commercial) is the guest at the party.” My response was, “The party is at her place. She’s not just the guest, this is her apartment.” That’s all of a sudden switching the narrative. That is me saying I can throw a party with my friends for Christmas, or whatever the message is.

I feel like what’s happening is that little people are not being asked to be a part of any story. For example, with the most recent Snow White movies and the Christmas specials, they are using average height actors and making them smaller via cool camera tricks. It’s interesting. I ask myself if we fought too hard the other way and now are we losing opportunities? I don’t know. But, there was an audition last year for a movie called Maybe The Moon, which is based off a book that was written by Armstead Maupin. The main character is a female little person. It is a real book that exists, I’ve read it before and then there was supposed to be a movie adaptation happening in Jan 2020. It’s a great story, but nothing came of it. Did it fall through? Did the producers say never mind, we don’t have enough talented people? I don’t know what happened. I think there is a disconnect with the people at the top, such as the producers and the people who really manage the money. They need to come down to our level, literally.

For example, I did a production of Shakespeare’s Richard III. Richard III is the only disabled character that William Shakespeare ever wrote. That character is often portrayed by someone who is able-bodied. When I was in that show, the creative team tried to defend their choice of casting by saying they could not find anybody with the right training or experience or who was talented enough. I won’t completely disagree about hiring someone with experience, but there are definitely trained, well qualified, disabled actors. Do we get enough experience? No, because we have not been let in. We have not been let into Hollywood, into Broadway, into the entertainment industry. My resume is great, but it could be so much better. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve auditioned for certain shows, like ten to twelve times, where I know they like me, but they can’t get past my dwarfism. That’s when I’m just like, “Come on!”

My point is that there are trained, well-qualified and professional disabled actors all over the world. Would you like to see someone in SAG-AFTRA and Equity with ten co-star or ten principal leads on TV or theater credits on their resume? Of course, who doesn’t want a resume like that? But, we are not given those opportunities.

But, I’m hopeful. I really am. I don’t let it beat me down. I feel like things are changing and things truly are getting better. I think that it is up to our community to continue to advocate for positive images of us, even if you are not an artist or an actor. Everyone can and should support the organizations, the artists, and the people that will put positive images of us out there, not negative ones. I want to live in a world where I can be Santa’s elf. I mean, are you kidding me? That would be so awesome. But, I don’t want that to be the only world I live in. I also want to be able to play the mother or the sister or the best friend to the lead in a rom-com. I want both. I’m not totally against all the stereotypical roles, but I’m not going to accept them when they are the only roles I’m offered. That includes the sci-fi and the mythical genre as well such as Harry Potter, Game Of Thrones and those fantastical worlds. Those shows and movies are so good and little people could be a part of those beautiful fantasy stories. I think that’s amazing. But, when kids watch movies or shows and those are the only images they see of little people, when those same kids see you or I on the street or at the grocery store, they think we have a magic wand in our pocket.

JILLIAN: I wish.

SOFIYA: Right, me too! I’m like, “Kid, bring me back to that world! Because I could just zap you away if I wanted to.”

It’s interesting. I think we are still in a murky place. It’s not perfect and it’s not going to be perfect for a while. I do think that conversations like this, having you on the other side, having a manager like mine that believes in me, having casting directors that believe in me...Those little things that are happening in little corners of the industry will, little by little, make an impact.

JILLIAN: I agree. You brought up Game Of Thrones. I think that when I say there is no little people representation, people will point out Peter Dinklage. He is someone who has completely transcended the stereotype and takes on roles where being a little person has nothing to do with the character he is playing. But, my response is always, “Can you think of any other little people?” and they can’t. I think people need to realize that having one person…

SOFIYA: Who happens to be a white, heterosexual male. Just sayin’.

JILLIAN: Right.

SOFIYA: I know he’s an LP but we still have that issue. That exists in disability as a whole, most of the time the people that are being cast are still white men. Where are the women at?!

JILLIAN: Exactly? Where are the girls at? I think that people also need to realize that having one person who really has done so well is a great start. But, one is not the answer. One is not enough.