Steve Serio On Disability In Sports On And Off The Court

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Jillian Curwin: Hi everyone. Welcome to Always Looking Up, the podcast where no one is overlooked and height is only a number. Never a limit. Hosted by me, Jillian Curwin. Each week, I will be having a conversation about what it is like to live in a world that is not necessarily designed for you.

In this week's episode, I sat down with Steve Serio. Steve is a team USA wheelchair basketball player, three time Paralympian and two time gold medal winner. We discuss the role sports has played in our lives, what it means to him to be an inspirational athlete, and the importance of seeing disability representation both on and off the court. Let's get into it.

Hi, Steve.

Steve Serio: Hey, Jillian. How you doing?

Jillian Curwin: I'm good. How are you?

Steve Serio: I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.

Jillian Curwin: Thank you for coming on. I am very excited to talk with you.

Steve Serio: Me too. I'm definitely excited to get into some stuff, so… Yeah. Happy to be here.

Jillian Curwin: Let's do it. To start, why don't you tell my listeners, who may not know who you are, a little bit about yourself?

Steve Serio: Yeah, sure. So my name is Steve Serio. I was the co-captain of the men's Paralympic basketball team for the last ten years or so, and currently taking a break from competing in high performance, figuring out some things for life. But I am a 34 year old New Yorker. I had my accident, I was disabled when I was 11 months old. And I'm sure that we'll get into a little bit of backstory about that. But yeah, I currently define myself as a Team USA athlete and disability advocate.

Jillian Curwin: Awesome. And how do you, kind of, going into like defining how do you define being disabled?

Steve Serio: Wow, that's a heavy hitter right off the bat. To be honest, I don't think that there's one definition of disability. To be honest, I kind of hate the term disabled. I kind of hate the term handicapped. I kind of hate the term that makes it seem like we are different than anybody else. We are individuals that have certain challenges and everybody has to face those challenges, whether it's physical limitations, mental or emotional limitations.

So to me, just to answer your question, I don't have a definition of disability. I am who I am. And one of the things that I try to promote on social media is to use my differences or to use my insecurities as a way to not only inspire people to embrace themselves, but to test the limits of what they think is possible. You know, if you would've asked me early on in life when I was going through a lot of my insecurities about having a disability and growing up differently than all of my other peers, I would have never guessed that I would be a Team USA athlete and accomplish everything I've accomplished on and off the court. So I try to just inspire people to not let their differences or to not let their insecurities define them and hold them back.

Jillian Curwin: I found what you said, a lot of it very interesting. I wanted to get into it a little more. But I do want to ask and if you're comfortable sharing, how did you become disabled?

Steve Serio: Yeah, sure. I would love it if I had kind of like a cool disability story, but I don't. I was actually born, I was born with a benign spinal tumor that went undiagnosed for the first 11 months of my life. And during that time, the tumor became infected and inflamed and crushed my spinal cord, resulting in the complete paralysis of my lower extremities. So living with a disability, it's all I know. It's all I remember. And in a way, I consider myself extremely fortunate that I didn't have to go through that transition a lot later on in life. You know, when it happens so young, you don't really know what you're missing.

Jillian Curwin: Right.

Steve Serio: It's a little bit easier for me and my loved ones while, you know, my parents and my loved ones had to go through a really traumatic experience. I don't remember that transition. So this is just life to me and in a way, I consider myself fortunate for that.

Jillian Curwin: Gotcha. Do you, and I, like, had this conversation with someone recently about like, because I was also born disabled. I didn't have a life day, as I know it's called, or a moment where like I was not disabled and then I became disabled, but I think there was a moment when I was younger, and it probably happened around like the time when I started school where I like, I recognized maybe not that I was disabled, but that I was different, that there were things that I couldn't do that my friends could. Did you have that kind of moment or experience?

Steve Serio: Yeah, I mean, I can say that pretty much every day. I've had that experience, especially growing up. I remember I would have these very adolescent worries or insecurities, like I was petrified to wear shorts because I walked with braces and crutches and I didn't want the kids around me to know just truly how different I was because I didn't want them to see my braces. And I've always been an athlete growing up.

Jillian Curwin: Mmhmmm.

Steve Serio: And I would always feel insecure because my friends would have to tailor the rules for that so that I could participate. Like, for instance, I was a big baseball player growing up and, you know, sports at that age where, you know, when I was growing up was just about being with my friends.

Jillian Curwin: Right.

Steve Serio: The way that I could play, you know, I would step up to the plate, I would hit the ball, one of my friends would run a run down to first for me, and then I would take his or her place when the play was over, because I wasn't able to step up to the plate, hit the ball, and then run down to first because I needed my, my, my crutches and I couldn't hold my crutches and the bat at the same time. So I always had an insecurity as to I wish that I didn't have to change the rules so that I could participate. But having able-bodied friends and living in that able-bodied life for so long, it really allowed me to not only feel a certain sense of insecurity because I was different, but it made me stronger because of it, because now I'm able to… I, at least I hope I'm able to showcase that. Just because we had to do things a little bit differently, that doesn't make life any less than or our dreams less than of, you know, for anybody else.

Jillian Curwin: Could not agree more. And I had like a similar experience. I played softball when I was younger because that was the only sport I really was allowed to play because I was told I can't do soccer, a contact sport. Basketball obviously was not going to happen. So softball was my sport. And when I was younger, the field was smaller so I could compete. And then it got to the point where we get older and, you know, they're like, okay, you're going to play on a full sized field. And suddenly my throws were not making it. And no matter how fast I ran, I couldn't get on base, like I was never going to beat the throw. And it got to the point where I think my dad and I, who, my dad is like a big sports fan and was the one who got me into sports, he said, okay, we're still going to find a way for you to be a part of the team.

But, you know, I think the the universe is kind of saying, like, okay, you can't. So I remember, like learning how to keep score the old fashioned way, like writing it down and being like my team's manager. And it led me, whether we realize it or not, like looking back, like I became an athletic trainer for my high school and in college and pursued a degree in sports management and like… I think it's like interesting how even with the limitations, we're still able to find these like pursue these passions that we have and still, again, like kind of be part of the team, because I think every person, non-disabled or disabled, wants that feeling.

Steve Serio: Jillian, I'm so happy you shared that because it mirrors my experience with sport and disability so much. So like to fast forward a few years, I basically when I was about seventh or eighth grade, the school board basically told me that I wasn't able to play sports anymore for safety and liability reasons. And to be honest, this was the first point in my life that I truly felt disabled. Like hearing these people that don't know anything about my abilities, my relationships to my friends and my relationships to athletics, basically telling me that I can't play sports with my friends anymore, and I remember going through that period just in pure confusion because I really didn't understand what their problem was and I did the exact same thing as you did. I became the manager of the track team, taking times. I became the manager of the football team and got a chance to call a few plays. And basically I was, like, the inspirational disabled leader as like, “Hey, I can't be out there with you guys, but you guys deserve or you owe it to me to give it your all because I can't be out there with you.”

And after doing that for about a year or two, I just realized that I wasn't born to sit on the sidelines like I needed to find an athletic outlet for myself. And I don't believe that everything happens for a reason in the universe, but it was around that same time, through a physical therapist, that I found wheelchair basketball. So like I said, it's a little bit of a, of a strange, you know, higher being timeline, but it's crazy to to hear just how much our experiences are, you know, it's not just me and you. It's a lot of people with disabilities. How our relationship to to growing up and to sport and disability all kind of have similar through lines.

Jillian Curwin: It's, it's crazy. I've talked to other people who talk, who are playing sports and other athletes, non-disabled athletes, who still find ways to participate in these sports. And I think it's like you, you just, you want to be a part of that team. And for me, when I became an athletic trainer and I worked with a football team, like… I, I started my college career at Tulane. I became an athletic trainer before I actually said yes to, like, admission. Like, that was like, I knew because I just wanted that. I loved doing it in high school. I wasn't prepared like, high school, the transition from high school to college, like athletic training was totally different. But like, I wanted to be on the sidelines and I remember, like, showing up and people would be like, like kind of like not saying it, but like questioning, like, can she do this? Like, can she? Because, like, we're carrying coolers, we're carrying water. You know, we're… I'm treating athletes. My mom, she saw me on, like watching me at a game and she's like, “They look like they could use you as dental floss.” Like, all the players, I'm like, and I'm like, and I, you know, I never saw myself and I'm like, can I do this? And, you know, just kind of like finding that way and saying, like, “Yeah, I can,” and making it work and realizing there are some things that I can't do, but I can still get the job done and I think, like, and be a part of that team in some way. And again, it's so important, I think, to feel like that.

But I do want to ask, because you kind of mentioned it, like kind of, like being on the sidelines is like the inspiration. I know being an inspiration in the disability community has both its pros and cons, like, how do you see it?

Steve Serio: How do I, how do I define inspiration porn?

Jillian Curwin: Yeah, like, or like, how does it… when people say you're an inspiration, like, how do you take that?

Steve Serio: So I don't take it as offensive as other people in the disabled community do, and this is a kind of, not a hot button topic, but I do feel like everybody has their own relationship to it.

I think I've worked extremely hard to be the best athlete and the best role model that I can be. So when I hear, when people call me an inspiration because of the things I've accomplished off the court or the things that I am trying to normalize, especially around New York City, I admire when people call me an inspiration because it means that in some form or fashion, a little piece of my journey and a little piece of my experience is getting through to them. And while I am not happy with our relationship to society, and where people's perception holds us, I think that every little step matters. So, while I would rather not be called an inspiration and just be highlighted for my accomplishments, the fact that people say that I don't take offense to it.

Now, I will say there's been times where I've been waiting in line at Starbucks or just walking through the terminal at LaGuardia or O'Hare and people have stopped me and said that I'm an inspiration and that I will be in their prayers. And that's the thing that bothers me, because I don't need to be labeled as an inspiration just for living life, just for doing the normal things that everybody else does. And that's the type of perception I really want to break. I don't want people while their intentions are in the in a wonderful, wonderful place, I think it's really important that we all just try to normalize that, like, hey, we're all out here just trying to go through the grind and go through this struggle, and go through life the best way that we can. And just because my differences or my insecurities are all external and you can see them, it doesn't mean that I'm an inspiration, because I'm just waiting for my latte just like they are.

Jillian Curwin: Right.

Steve Serio: So that's the point where I have made it a point to say, listen, I really appreciate your your your thoughts, but there are other people that are inspirations. And, you know, waiting in line at Starbucks is not one of them. So I also think it's important for us, though, but like in terms of active two-way communication, for us to very politely say why we are not inspirations for just waiting in line at Starbucks and don't do it in a combative or confrontational way. Don't roll your eyes. And I know it's hard. But that's an opportunity for us to educate. And in my experience, when I try to educate in a polite and well-mannered way, it gets through to people and we can have a really great conversation about it. So yeah, that's my overall thoughts on being a quote unquote inspiration and the inspiration porn in the disabled community.

Jillian Curwin: I think that's a good way to look at it. And I think you kind of, like, touched on something that I've struggled when I've talked about inspiration porn and being called an inspiration when talking about it with other people. And it's hard because most people who are saying it are kind of are coming from it with good intent. And it's hard to explain how it's not necessarily inspirational, like you said, for standing in line at Starbucks, for just living and breathing and existing. Like, that's not inspirational. I don't want to be prayed for like it's… so it's kind of hard to talk about, like to explain why it's it can be problematic without, you know, because, again, people are saying it with good intent, so I think you explained it really well.

Steve Serio: Yeah. You know, I think that especially it's very easy for all of us to take these experiences and to share them on social media, like, oh, you guys will never believe what just happened to me at LaGuardia or at O'Hare and stuff. And in a way, I like the fact that those types of experiences are getting shared so that everybody can learn together. But sometimes it feels like we're building on the negative energy over and over again and not really having a relationship to it that's a little bit more helpful. And growth mind, like a growth mindset in terms of just kind of venting a little bit, which I mean, there's always room for that on social media, but it's just not my style, so I definitely get that.

Jillian Curwin: Totally. I do want to pivot. So then you, you're recommended to wheelchair basketball. So how did that then, like, what happened once you started? Like what was like what was that experience like?

Steve Serio: Yeah. So like I said, I grew up playing able-bodied sports, so I had no perception of what wheelchair basketball or wheelchair athletics was, was like. I didn't use a wheelchair in my everyday life. So I had the same perception that most able bodied people have about it. Like, how do you play wheelchair basketball sitting down? Are the rims the same height? I kind of thought that we played on those like little two or three foot Fisher-Price hoops for kids. You know what I mean? Because I just didn't have any perception about it. And I remember going down to the, my first wheelchair basketball practice, and sitting in a wheelchair for the very first time and pushing up and down the court and going through practice and just learning and interacting with the kids and interacting with the kids's families that were there. And for the first time in my life, I felt free from my disability.

It was like, this is something that I was born to do. I go and chat with a lot of kids' classes nowadays, just trying to normalize disability in athletics. And basically what I tell them is when I step into my wheelchair basketball chair, like that's my version of an Iron Man suit. And yeah, like Tony Stark is like this uber smart, but he's just a guy until he steps into his suit, right? So I'm kind of the same way. And that was like a really fork in the road defining moment for me when I found wheelchair basketball. And I just did it because I love to do it. And it's provided me with my identity, it's provided me with my confidence, it's provided me with the resiliency to struggle through this crazy life and the ups and downs that come with it. And that was a really, like, probably the defining moment of my life so far. I didn't do it because I was good at it. I did it because I loved it. And it was a way for me to be, like, the truest form of an athlete that I could be. And I just felt extremely comfortable and extremely connected to to the game.

I'm a prototypical team sport athlete, also, which it was one of the ways that I got a chance to interact with people in the disabled community that had had similar experiences to me. Just getting a chance to hear about their stories, about growing up in an able-bodied world and getting a chance to hear their parents talk to my parents about, you know, just things that we don't get to experience. Like one of the running jokes of me and my teammates are always that my parents didn't make my house wheelchair accessible until I moved out of the house and went to college. And so many people have had that similar experience. So it not only provided me with an athletic outlet, but it provided me with the tools and resources and lessons to become a more well-rounded person and leader.

Jillian Curwin: I love that. And I just want to, like, I'm asking for clarification. So you, you say you didn't use a like, did you like was wheelchair basketball really the first time you really like embraced the wheelchair?

Steve Serio: Yeah. So, I used to walk with braces and crutches and I, about a month or two before I started playing wheelchair basketball, I developed a pressure sore on my foot because I was growing and obviously my braces weren't. So at that age, when you hit your growth spurt, you know, you had to get constant check ups and constant different casts and stuff like that, and that's expensive. So I was wearing braces that were too small for me. And I honestly, I didn't know what to do because I didn't want to use a wheelchair, but I needed the braces to walk. And when I went down to that first wheelchair basketball practice, it basically allowed me to use a wheelchair in my everyday life. Like it opened my eyes to basically saying, “Dude, this is easier. This is better for you and your body. Just embrace it. Stop trying to be an able-body and just embrace the fact that you're beautiful just how you are.”

And I remember, you know, everybody that I've talked to goes through this transition with their able-bodied friends and loved ones as like, wow, when you make a decision for you, it's not the best decision for them. So for instance, I remember coming into school that very first day in a wheelchair and my friends were all asking me if I was okay, if there was something wrong, or if they could help in some way. And I remember one of them saying, like, “Wow, I've never looked at you as someone with a disability. And now I realize that like you use a wheelchair.” And in a way, like, I don't, I don't take that in in a bad sense, but it was the best decision for me and it didn't make them very comfortable. And it didn't change my relationship with them, but it was a transition that they had to go through. And so many decisions that we make as people with disabilities are trying to fit in or trying to do what's comfortable for the world around us. And it was the first time in my life that I made a decision for me. And I, not only did I not look back, I try to encourage people to do that a little bit more often in this world and to not try to make others around you, try, not to try to make others around you comfortable, but do what you need to do to live your best life.

Jillian Curwin: That is so true, and I wish I had this advice to my younger self because I remember in high school, on my senior trip we went to Disney World and the first day I was like, I'm going to walk around with everybody. I'm going to just try and you know, and like kind of what always happens. Some people are like they don't wait up. And I was getting tired because Disney World is big and we had four other days left. So I said like the next day, like I didn't want to, but I knew I should, is like get a scooter to help me get around and keep up. And that created a whole other set of problems then. So then my brain was like, with my friends, and I'm like, fine, if the scooter is going to create more problems and I'm going to walk and you're going to have to listen to that again. So that's what I did. But like I, you know looking back, like I was punishing myself because I was making it easier for me, was making my able-bodied friends uncomfortable and like I didn't think it was like me again trying to fit in. And so I think that, so like it's, you know, I wish I could my younger self could say like, no, you needed the scooter and they just should have had to…they should have had to adapt. You know, we always talk about how we have to adapt and to change our environment, but sometimes I think we never we have to kind of flip it on and say like non-disabled people have to adapt when we're trying to access this world, too.

Steve Serio: Yeah, and I love that you've had a similar experience with that transition with your friends and loved ones, because sometimes the pendulum can swing too far the other way. Like one of our, in the first couple of months that I started using the chair in school, now like all the teachers were bending over backwards to help me and all of my friends were like trying to carry my books and just trying to like see what I needed. And it was the first time where, like, I realized that I also need to say when it's too much. Like, “Hey, I'll tell you when I need help or just ask. Don't assume that I need help. Just just ask and I'll tell you.” And it was one of those moments where I realized how important the communication, the two-way communication is. Whereas it's not it's not only up to us to make, to shape this world in the way that we see fit, but it's also our opportunity to say, like, “Hey, I don't need help,” or “Hey, like I can do this and I want to challenge myself,” in a way like it's sometimes the pendulum swings too far the other way as well so.

Jillian Curwin: Exactly. And I think it's kind of going to, like, prove that we are not like, I don't know if like belong because like obviously we're here like, but I think that like, you know, there's this expectation of with the disability that you can't do something. And while it is true that technically in the definition of what it means to be disabled, there are ways to work around it. And, you know, let us let us figure out what we can and can't do. I think that there's always this assumption that, you know, like you said, like everyone's going to try to, you know, assume what we can or can't do. And it's like, no, let us try, and, again, we have our own voice. We'll tell you what we need when we need it. And, you know, let us use our voice.

Steve Serio: Yeah, that's a great point. And I think that that's really important. You know, I don't know specifically like the, the who, you know, who specifically is your audience. But I will say to all the parents who have who are taking care of of loved ones with disabilities, I can tell you, you know, please don't baby them and protect them. The ones, people that I see that, you know, grow up with the life skills that you need to live your best life are people that are able to make mistakes, are kids that are able to get hurt, that have gone through serious problems. Like, for instance, I tell people that my parents treated me like I was any other normal able-bodied kid, you know. I got in trouble just as much, they never pitied me. Like I said, they didn't make the living area disability friendly until I moved out. But, in a way, that taught me how to navigate a world that was not built for me, and it allowed me to think critically about different ways that I need to do things. It's not, the answer is never, oh well I just can't do it because I physically can't get there. Let's think a little bit more critically about a way that you can accomplish this task or you can accomplish this goal. Have you had similar experience to that as well?

Jillian Curwin: Yeah, and I think it's something that I've definitely talked about, like looking back, like there's definitely things that, you know, I wish I could have done and maybe probably should have tried to do. And maybe like other people were saying no, like we can be like thinking, knowing what's best and with good intent. But yeah, I was like, I didn't. We made my house somewhat more accessible. There were a lot of stools that were left around. We, like, kind of, installed like sticks on my light switches that I can reach. We turned our, my, sink sideways a little bit, but it was still like me really like a lot of things were still out of reach and figuring out how am I going to do it. Like if nobody was around like it wasn't you know, how do I do it? And it would be funny because I would be like, I'm going to climb on the counters to get this. And I'd get caught and it'd be, and they're like, don't do that. I'm like, well, what do you want me to do?

Steve Serio: Hey, we've all been there. I love that.

Jillian Curwin: I'm like, I need to, I need something. It's on the top shelf. I've got to climb. I can do that, so I'm going to do it. But yeah, I think, and it is important to kind of like let us try, let us, you know, see what we can or can't do, let us kind of figure it out for ourselves and know that, you know, we have the support system to help us, but you still kind of have to let us figure out what to do with our bodies.

Steve Serio: Exactly.

Jillian Curwin: As you started your wheelchair basketball journey, did you ever see yourself like becoming an athlete, like a professional athlete or like was it just like a hobby or like just an activity for you? At first?

Steve Serio: No. At first it was just something I loved to do. And it was, like I said, it was the way for me to pursue my athletic like endeavors. There was no goal. It was just, this is a way that I can challenge myself. This is a way that I feel powerful. This is a way that I like to have fun. Like, to this day, the way I process life is by putting on my headphones and going to shoot. And that was the way I processed, like going through high school, like navigating high school. I remember I was petrified to ask this one girl to prom and it like, I remember like putting on my headphones and shooting for like 3 hours, just trying to, like, get up the courage to go ask this person to go to prom with me.

And so, like when I started it, it was just my way to release and it was my way to gain confidence. And then when I attended the University of Illinois on a full athletic scholarship, not only did that provide my family with a lot of financial safety, but it was the place where I was introduced to Team USA. It was the place that I was introduced to high performance. And not only do you have to explore and build those really important life lessons in college about time management and hard work and who you let into your life. But for me, it was the place that I became a high performance athlete and it was the place where I made my first Paralympic team in 2008 and it was the place where I realized that I can probably take this game in a much different place and journey that I had originally thought, and I owed it to myself and to my parents who made so many sacrifices to see how far I could take this dream that I had developed over the years. So starting out, it definitely wasn't the goal, but it quickly shifted after a few years of playing to, let's see how far I can take this. And not only do I get a first class education for it, but I get a chance to play professionally in Europe and live in Germany for six years learn a new language, learn a new culture, and just become a more well-rounded person.

Jillian Curwin: That is so cool. So, wait, does University of Illinois, like when you said they give you a full time, a full scholarship as an athlete, did they have a student basketball team or were you a basketball player like…?

Steve Serio: So a lot of the universities now, University of Illinois was one of the first to start offering athletic scholarships to people with disabilities. Now, University of Illinois is a United States Olympic and Paralympic committee training spot for track and field. But through Title IX, adaptive sports athletes, you know, have the, should have the same opportunities as able-body sports athletes. So I can tell you that it was a real honor, because I never would have thought that that would have been possible for me to be considered, you know, a scholarship student athlete at a Big Ten school. But now it's progressed to where there's over ten or 12 or 15 programs around the country that offer wheelchair basketball and that offer some type of monetary assistance for kids with disabilities, attending that college and playing playing wheelchair basketball or track and field or any other sport. So, while I don't like to show how old I am, it was one of the first places to offer a full athletic scholarship in the Big Ten.

Jillian Curwin: Wow. I didn't… I truly did not know that. So… Wow, thank you, one, for teaching me. And also like that's just so it's like amazing to hear cause like you don't, you know, in college athletics like, I didn't see other disabled people even on the sidelines. So, like, to know that, like, there are schools who are really, you know, saying, you know, I saw like I have my best friend. She's a little person. She's a coxswain at her university. Like unless it, like, was in a position like that and she was, is still, is… but like was a badass on that sport. I say that because I know she's listening. At least I hope she's listening. But like I other than like her, and like, I really didn't see a disability in college athletics. So that is, wow.

Steve Serio: Yeah, it's a, it's, it's low hanging fruit. You know, there's people with disabilities and people attending colleges all across the country. CUNY just started up an amazing wheelchair basketball program here in in the tri state area. And they have over, I don't know, over like a 100 campuses and they've already found in the first year or two, I think that they have 30 athletes that were attending CUNY schools but had never been introduced to wheelchair athletics. And now with that program, they have like 30 kids in the first two years, which is kind of mind blowing to think about. Both male and female athletes that are provided with a little bit better sporting equipment and an opportunity to play a sport and also be a student athlete, you know, as well. So there's a lot of room to go.

But in the last decade, you know, to see University of Michigan, University of Alabama, University of Auburn, these places, these huge icons of universities, starting to see the value in investing in wheelchair athletics or, you know, disabled athletics is it's very rewarding for us to see as as somebody who was kind of there in the beginning, before social media, before the boom. So...

Jillian Curwin: Right. That's incredible. I just, I want to see it more. And again, like thinking back to like my younger self, like imagining if I had the avenues to pursue athletics and like really get to play and have that sports team. Like I feel like that would have been game changing. So that's just incredible to hear that like it's continuing to evolve and grow and you know, have, you know, so that way the next generation can have these opportunities.

Steve Serio: Totally. That's well said.

Jillian Curwin: So let's talk about the Paralympics. When did you decide, like how was the tryout process? What was that experience like? Like, I just wanna hear from the beginning.

Steve Serio: Yes. So wheelchair basketball has a tryout selection process where you try out every single year. Usually it's the beginning of the calendar year. And through a series of tryouts, you whittle the group of athletes down to 12. And basically you're together that that group of 12 is together for the entire summer and you compete at the end of the summer. And then once that competition is over, you have to re-tryout again in the following January. I made my first team USA was in 2006, which was my freshman or soph, my freshman year at the University of Illinois and my first Paralympic team in 2008. And I've been on Team USA every year up until this year which it was a little bit of a transition for me. But being a Team USA athlete, wearing those three letters and getting a chance to compete at the Paralympic level is the greatest honor that I've had in my athletic career. Like I said in the beginning, I never thought that this was the goal. I never thought that it was possible. But it's taken a lot of sacrifice, a lot of hard work and putting normal, real fun life on hold for about 20 years.

Not only did I excel at the University of Illinois and playing professionally in Germany, but Team USA is representing your country even when your country doesn't share a lot of your similar values that we you know, what we've gone through the last few years has been extremely rewarding. And, you know, we talked about being an inspiration previously, I absolutely love it when kids and parents call me an inspiration for being a Team USA athlete and representing them to the best of my ability, because, you know, that's what it's all about for being an athlete. You just want to let your loved ones represent your country in the best possible manner. So it's been it's it's meant everything to me. It's meant the world.

Jillian Curwin: That's amazing. And I think you kind of said like that there's a difference, like being an inspiration as an athlete, as someone like representing our country versus being an inspiration for waiting in line at Starbucks. Like, I just want to stress that there's a difference in inspiration there. Like in that. Yeah. So that's….

Steve Serio: To be honest, like it provides, you know, getting a chance to compete around the world, getting a chance to just walk into a Paralympic village cafeteria and see people with disabilities from all different parts of the world. You really understand how lucky we have it. And while there's so many low hanging fruit and so many things that needs to be changed in this world, but as Americans and as Americans with disabilities, we have it so well compared to other people around the world. And it really just provides that perspective as to, yes, it's important to be a disability advocate to shape the world in the way that you think that it should be. But it's also really important to stop and acknowledge the fact that you have the capability to do that. That you have the resources to talk for those who can't speak for themselves. And it's just provided me with a much more well-rounded view of the world. And to remind myself to not always be to the first reaction can't always be anger. It has to be a way that is productive and with that growth mindset that we had talked previously about.

Jillian Curwin: You just kind of answered a question I was about to ask. With… and seeing different parts of the world like how does the U.S. compare in terms of accessibility, in terms of just being a disabled person in these other parts of the world?

Steve Serio: Well, while we are in, you know, there's New York City is the least accessible place on planet Earth. Let's just start there. So I kind of have the mindset that if I can make it here in New York, we can make it anywhere. Because just with how old the city is and how tight the spaces are, it's just not easy being a wheelchair user in New York. But again, with those experiences that I've had, we have access to some of the best equipment. And I know that people have insurance issues with getting high performance, you know, wheelchair sporting equipment. We still have access to it.

I can tell you that seeing some of the equipment and seeing the access that people have to different medical devices around the world is truly shocking. It could be as something as small as, you know, using a catheter. People here kind of take it for granted, even though insurance and different financial obligations are always kind of a nuisance. Just the fact that we have access to catheters is first and foremost. For wheelchair users, we have access to the best wheelchair high-performance sporting equipment the world has seen up until this point. And even the quote unquote bad insurance carriers, or, no, no I don't want to say bad, but, you know, like the TiLite wheelchair, just the ones that insurances use. They're still better than 90% of what the world has access to. So it's, it's been a much more humbling experience to see what people can do with not as good of equipment and not as many resources as we have here in the States.

And again, it's just allowed me personally to have a much more well-rounded view about how it's important to continue to shape the world through a positive way of thinking and not just resort to that anger that we constantly feel, especially living here in New York, where it's like the eye roll that another elevator doesn't work in the subway and you're trapped underground or, you know, a a restaurant labels itself as wheelchair accessible, but there's two steps to get into the restaurant from the outside. It's like this is low hanging fruit, but there's people in this world that have it much worse than we do.

Jillian Curwin: Right. And I love that you talk about like, approach it from the positive because I think it is again very easy to go into the anger, especially when like confronting inaccessibility, like, you know, you said like with two stairs to get into in a restaurant that says it's accessible. And I do think it's important that we do because, again, it is very easy. And I think sometimes I definitely will lean on the anger because it's there. But I think it is important, especially because we need non-disabled people to understand, and in order to make them understand, we can't necessarily get angry at them. In certain situations, in certain situations. In other situations, anger might be, you know, you might have to tap into it. But I do think it's important that to really get them to understand we do have to not always just resort on anger.

Steve Serio: Yeah, yeah. That's a great point. And you know, I can tell you that I have millions of horror stories about traveling and not, you know, airlines breaking my wheelchair or not handling the equipment with the care that I would like. But, you know, we have to remember that things are getting better. And if we have an opportunity to help and teach people around us, then I would say that that's a pretty amazing way to use our disability to make the world a little bit of a better place.

Jillian Curwin: I could not agree more. Looking back at your career, do you have a highlight?

Steve Serio: You mean on the court? Or just…?

Jillian Curwin: As like an official, I guess like Team USA athlete, like on or off the court? Like is there a career highlight for you?

Steve Serio: I think two specifically come to mind.

So in 2016, we that was my first gold medal. And, you know, just the fact that it took two decades for us as a team to win that medal. And it was in front of my friends and family in Rio that is on court. The the moment that sticks out to me, I just remember for the first time stepping on to that gold medal podium and seeing our flag raised just a little bit higher than everybody else's, and to hear your national anthem. And I remember just looking to the left of me and to the right and behind me, to my coaches as as the anthem was playing. And I just remember thinking that there's not a group of individuals that I would want to share this moment with more than the individuals, the individuals that were associated with that gold medal performance in Rio because it had taken so much sacrifice. And it's just that's that's the one on court moment that sticks out to me.

The off the court moment that I think I'm most proud of was I've been the athlete representative to the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee for wheelchair basketball for a number of years now. And it was between the Rio Games and the Tokyo Games in 2021 where the Operation Gold Money, which is the money that you win if you money that you receive, if you win a medal competing for Team USA, it was finally deemed that it should be equal among Olympians and Paralympians. So for the first time in history of our sport of, of the Olympics and Paralympic Games, the individuals who are fortunate enough to win a gold, silver or bronze in the Olympics were paid exactly the same as the individuals who won those medals in the Paralympic Games as well. So just to see the hard work and the investment and the sacrifice that you make and the podcast that you do and the speeches that you do.

And finally, people are listening and making tangible financial investments into the Paralympic community. It's just been extremely rewarding. And now you see people like, you know, sponsors like Nike, sponsors like Toyota really changing the game as to how they brand, how they market and how they sell people with disabilities and the Paralympic community. And it's been so incredibly refreshing and rewarding to see that evolution.

Jillian Curwin: Wow. I think the first thing I go, wow. I mean like I can only imagine what it's like, you know, being on that podium as our anthem is playing and our flag is being raised. And I'm so happy that you got to have that moment and, you know, like that, you know, and then like seeing what happened after that moment with getting equal pay for winning a medal as the Olympians because it's something, you know, you don't think about. And even now and kind of like looking at like normal, in, like, everyday society, disabled people aren't given that same treatment. So to see, at least like that, that equality is happening somewhere, you know, it just kind of is like, okay, you know, here's a, like, this is a starting point. Like, now let's take what happened there and like, bring it, have it so that way other disabled people can have that moment in their life where they're treated equally as their non-disabled peers. I think that's so important. So I'm just, just... Wow.

Steve Serio: Yeah, no. That's well said. And I, and you know, we live in a generation where everybody wants things now. And I can tell you that, that was like a decade of fighting behind the scenes, you know, for us Paralympians advocating for why we should have equal pay and why the sacrifice and the hard work that we put in is equal to any Olympic counterpart. And while it didn't happen as quickly as we would have liked, it did happen, and now for future generations, they won't even have to have that fight. It's just equal and nobody will bat an eye.

And that's the way it should be. But these these fights, these things that we're advocating for, they take years. They take decades. And, you know, one lesson that I've taken away is to not let the day to day struggle drag you down, because there's going to be a day where you are successful, where the world will be different and better because of the fight that you're putting in now. And so don't let the day to day struggle hold you back because better things are coming.

Jillian Curwin: Couldn't have said it better myself. So, now looking ahead like, what are you working on now?

Steve Serio: Well, I'm going through a little bit of a, of an identity crisis, I think. The last year of my life, as I'm transitioning out of competing on the high performance level, I haven't officially retired yet because I'm terrified to do so, but I'm just figuring out how to have the impact in the sport that has given me everything that I have in this world. And I don't know if that's through social media, I don't know if that's through public speaking, in corporate speaking, working with sponsors and NPOs, trying to help fundraise and trying to increase the awareness of adaptive sports. I have aspirations of starting my own NPO here in the Tri-State Area. So, I don't have a goal. And to be honest, it's the first time in my life where I don't have like that guiding light or that north star that I've been, you know, everything that I decide in my everyday life is kind of pointing towards, but I'm learning how to be okay with that. I'm learning how to just try to make an impact each day, and I'm learning that even though you don't have total control over everything that happens in your world, you have to embrace the individual moments that, you know, you do have control over. So while I don't, I can't really answer what's next, I'm actually learning to embrace the idea of not having that answer is a good thing, because I'm able to take some time to shape the impact that I have in a way that's going to be really meaningful to me and the next generation. And I've always told myself the impact that I can have off the court is infinitely more important than the impact that I can have on it. And this is an opportunity to go through that messy middle in a way that hopefully I can find the right way to have that impact off the court and to make opportunities for people with disabilities a little bit easier than what we had at, you know, growing up.

Jillian Curwin: I love that. And I'll say one way I've seen you doing it is working with brands. You know, I know you work with Toyota and like you don't really necessarily think of like disabled people working with the like, in cars, like we don't see that representation. To see you working with them I think is so important because it's, you know, we all want to able to get around the world and driving is a way to do it and so to see them working with someone with a disability I think is so important. So I want to like, what was that? How did that partnership come about?

Steve Serio: Yeah. So just in full disclosure, I am a Team Toyota sponsored athlete, so you can take the what I'm about to say next with as much conflict of interest as as you can possibly muster, but the investment that Toyota has made into the Paralympic community is unprecedented. They created a $5 million stipend heading into Tokyo, specifically for athletes with disabilities training for Team USA and training for Tokyo. They are amazing storytellers. They basically are going through this rebranding where they don't want to be labeled as a car manufacturer. They want to be labeled as a mobility company, and there's nothing that's more important, especially for people with disabilities, than the freedom to move about this world how we see fit. It gives us our independence. It not only allows us move from point A to point B through like cars or something, but it allows us to to dream bigger, to demand more from this life. And, you know, for instance, it was the first time a Paralympic athlete was featured on a Super Bowl commercial. And I don't know if any of your listeners saw, but I would encourage them to go on YouTube and and just search Jessica Long's Super Bowl Toyota commercial and to have millions of people see that commercial and to see her be represented in a way of a badass athlete who happens to be a bilateral amputee, in addition. It was just so rewarding. And I'll just never forget the feeling that I had when I'm partying with my friends, watching the Super Bowl and see this badass Paralympic athlete in the Super Bowl commercial. I was just so incredibly proud and humbled to be working with them.

But we need more sponsors. We need more corporate donors. We need more people to take an interest in adaptive sports and the disabled community. Because, you know, the, the, the opportunities are endless. And when you provide someone with the inspiration to demand more from this life, you truly see the impact of those dollars in a really meaningful way. So while I'm humbled to be a part of Team Toyota, we're not going to stop there and we have much more work to do.

Jillian Curwin: That's awesome. I remember watch-, like you said, I remember watching that ad and then remember like having that like, oh my gosh moment. Because, like you said, like seeing a disabled athlete, seeing a disabled person in a commercial during the Super Bowl where, you know, the entire country is watching and seeing that representation is so important. And like, because, again, like my younger self didn't see that, didn't have that representation. And I think like representation is key. And seeing these brands saying we're going to work with disability and really recognizing like we have a voice, we are here, we're the world's largest minority, like you have to include us. So to see that inclusion in that representation, it was a major moment.

Yeah. Like, I mean that's, that's what that's so well said. And I'm happy you brought up like the avenue of a role model because similar to you, I didn't have a role model that looked like me growing up. All of my, all of my athletic role models were NBA players and New York Yankees and stuff like that. And now with the power of social media using the platforms of a Toyota or a Nike to basically tell our stories and to show the world how much of badasses we all are, and to not let our disability hold us back or define us Is so incredibly influential. And just the little amount of work that they've done over the last few years has been incredibly, it'll pay dividends in the future. So we have an opportunity to capitalize in this corporate world with with investments like that. And I know that there'll be more to come, let's say, as Paris gets closer and closer and then LA in 2028. So it's a bright, it's, it's a bright future for Paralympic athletes for sure.

Jillian Curwin: I can't wait to see it. I asked ask because he said, Are you a Yankees fan?

Steve Serio: Of course I am Yankees fan. I am a New Yorker through and through. And I like to watch my teams win so…

Jillian Curwin: Oh, I'm sorry, but I'm the daughter of… Just wait. So because like, it doesn't make sense, I'm the daughter of a Long Island boy born and raised, Red Sox fan.

Steve Serio: Oh, my gosh. That's that's that shouldn't be allowed. That's crazy.

Jillian Curwin: It's just, my dad was one of four brothers. Three are Red Sox fans. One is a Yankee fan. One is a Yankee fan.

Steve Serio: I have a few Red Sox fans in my life. And while, yes, they've kind of owned the last ten years, it's cute to see them get so excited about like three or four championships when, you know, they're about 20 behind. So yeah, it's definitely cute. But yes, I'm a Yankees fan through and through. Like I'm a son of a Brooklyn guy and he's been a diehard Yankees fan his whole life. So it's kind of what I was born into.

Jillian Curwin: Huh. See, I tried to, like, not pick a side, even though, like, I was, you know, I was woken up at two in the morning to take a picture of my dad celebrating the 2004 Red Sox win. But like I, I'm sorry, but I'm a Red Sox fan.

Steve Serio: Listen, I totally get it. I'm actually not very competitive in my everyday life because I'm so competitive in my professional life that I've learned to like, embrace, like when they do well, I'm happy. If they don't do well, or if the Red Sox smoke us, then I'm not sad. I'm, I'm very happy for them. But the Red Sox-Yankees rivalry is a little bit, it hits a little bit different.

So, I think we can still be best friends, but we just won't go into, we just can't talk during that series. It's totally cool.

Jillian Curwin: No. Yeah, exactly. I like, I will, like I'm watching the, there's a Derek Jeter documentary that's like series that's coming out right now. I'm loving it. It's so good. Okay, this is being…

So every year, Little People of America has, like, a convention. And one year, I think it might have been 2000-. It was 2009. It was, I guess like I, so I might actually now be blamed for this. So like, it was in Brooklyn and they had like, we had like a raffle every year. And so I never win, ever, for anything I want. And they had a Jeter jersey, I think it was like an All-Star Jeter jersey. And I, being the daughter of a Red Sox fan who hadn't declared herself as a Red Sox fan, I decided to be a little smartass and put one ticket in.

Steve Serio: Yes.

Jillian Curwin: I won the jersey.

Steve Serio: Yes you did. The universe is trying to tell you something.

Jillian Curwin: And I won the jersey and I did wear it when my dad took me to a Yankees game, I went to my first Yankees game before I went to my first Red Sox game, and I did wear the jersey to the Yankees game. And my dad like, like unwillingly had to associate with me.

Steve Serio: When you're ready to come over to the to the good side, we'll be happy to take you.

Jillian Curwin: The good side? Wow. Okay.

Steve Serio: Yeah.

Jillian Curwin: Well, we'll see. We'll see. It may not happen, but we'll see. At least, I'm glad to know my invitation's open.

Steve Serio: Of course we'll be. We'll be here when you're ready.

Jillian Curwin: Okay. Who do you look up to?

Steve Serio: Oh, oh, well, that's, that's a hard question. So the first answer that comes to mind is my father. While we have had some vehemently crazy disagreements over the last few years, he's someone who is one of the most generous, one of the most loyal. And one of the most…he's just been an unbelievable father, and he's instilled a lot of those core values in me. He's somebody who never complained about driving me to practice. He never complained about traveling to a game in Philadelphia or North Carolina or wherever, you know, we were competing. And he has come to every single Paralympic Games that I've been at, minus Tokyo because of COVID. But he was at Beijing in 2008. He was in London in 2012 and Rio 2016. And he's you know, he's he's my best friend. He's just, he's just the best. So that'd be one.

My collegiate coach, Mike Frogley, who's kind of an icon in the sport of wheelchair basketball. He's somebody who pushed me and who taught me how to be a great leader and allowed me to be the best version of myself on the court. And, you know, he taught all of us that wins and losses are great, but it's important to be a leader in your community just as just as much. And so he's somebody who comes to mind as well. And then the people I look up to - that I usually answer this question for are my teammates, like my Team USA teammates inspire me to not phone in a workout. You know, these are people with kids and families and jobs, that still make time to to get their Team USA workout in, that still do what they need to do to contribute to the team and to help us accomplish our dreams. So they're the people that inspire me day to day for sure.

Jillian Curwin: Love that. Are there any questions I have not asked that you would like to answer?

Steve Serio: I mean, I think that we've covered everything.

I would just encourage people to focus on the small victories that we have each and every day. I know that we see the world as it should be and we get frustrated because it's not that way. And we have all of these grand goals and all these grand changes that we want to see throughout this, throughout this country. And I would just try to remind people to focus [on] the small victories that we have. Like just getting a chance to talk to you and reaching your audience, hopefully it's inspired people to, you know, not let their disability hold themselves back and to inspire them to chase down whatever dream that they have to use their disability as a way to differentiate themselves in this world and to not shy away from the things that make us different, but embrace them and use them.

But the thing that's gotten me through the last two decades and the thing that's going to carry me through the rest of my journey is focusing on the things that I can do today to not only make myself a better person and to to have the impact that I want to have. But to remind myself that by building up these small victories, you can you can truly change the world. So thank you for making this podcast. Thank you for allowing me to be a part small part of the conversation. And I'm looking forward to being best.

Friends in the future, despite the fact that we can't go to baseball games. But that's cool.

Jillian Curwin: Well, we can. We're just going to argue the whole time, but like we can still go.

Steve Serio: I guess that is the point of sitting through a three or four hour Yankees-Red Sox game.

Jillian Curwin: Right?

Steve Serio: Get some arguments in there, but that's cool. All right. I'm down.

Jillian Curwin: We could still be best friends. And I think we've been told to become best friends by a mutual friend of ours. So it's going to happen.

Steve Serio: Well, that's exciting. And thank you so much for having me on.

Jillian Curwin: Thank you. You are welcome to come back on any time. Would love to continue this conversation with you because I think it's you know, this isn't an end point either. It's just the beginning.

Um, where can people follow you?

Steve Serio: So the main platform that I use is, is Instagram and Facebook. I'm too old for TikTok. And Twitter is too negative, too combative for me. So I encourage people to follow me on on Instagram. If you just type in Steve Serio, it'll pop up. But yeah, I encourage people to follow alongside my journey. DM me I…if you ever have any questions or you just want to talk about disability or basketball or what have you, yeah, I encourage people to reach out.

Jillian Curwin: Yeah. And I'll have links to follow him in the show notes, so please do it.

So I like to do an icebreaker at the end because it's more fun that way. So I have I have…No we haven't… It's been an hour we still haven't broken the ice yet, so we're going to do it now. So I have five categories and I just want to hear your favorite in each one.

Steve Serio: Okay. Shoot.

Jillian Curwin: Favorite book.

Steve Serio: Harry Potter [and the] Order of Phoenix.

Jillian Curwin: That's a good… Oh, that's a good… Okay, that's a good one. And that's a long one.

Steve Serio: Are these rapid fire? Or can I think about the questions.

Jillian Curwin: You can think about it. It's up to you.

Steve Serio: Yeah. My favorite book is probably Harry Potter, either Order or Half-Blood Prince. It goes back and forth.

Jillian Curwin: Okay. For me I think it would be Goblet of Fire or Half-Blood Prince.

Steve Serio: Goblet's solid.

Jillian Curwin: Goblet's solid. Order of the Phoenix is a really good one though. Um, favorite TV show.

Steve Serio: Probably Game of Thrones. Although I've seen every episode of Friends like, a million times, so it goes back and forth.

Jillian Curwin: Those are two very different sides of the spectrum.

Steve Serio: You know, we're all complex beings. We all have layers to us.

Jillian Curwin: Love it. Favorite drink.

Steve Serio: Probably a margarita.

Jillian Curwin: Favorite piece of advice you've ever given.

Steve Serio: To remind people to not shy away from loss, to not shy away from difficult moments. I've been someone who has grown as an individual during loss on the court or loss in my personal life. And the reason why I've reached the point is because I'm able to learn and grow and be a better athlete leader and person because of those negative experiences.

I don't really think that we learn a lot from successes, but a lot of people shy away from new experiences because they're afraid of failure. And the most successful people I've ever come across, whether that be in athletics or the corporate world or personally, are people who seek out those challenges. They seek out those failures because they know that it's not necessarily about winning or losing. It's about growth. That and the learning opportunity that it creates.

Jillian Curwin: That is so true. Last one, favorite piece of advice ever received.

Steve Serio: Brush it off, like you don't have to get so focused or so angry. Like, just just be a little bit of a more well-Balanced, easygoing individual. I'm an Italian, New Yorker. Like I'm ready to blow up at any given moment, but it's just to breathe. Just relax a little bit. Don't take life too seriously. And just to try to have the impact that you can have on the world in a positive way.

Jillian Curwin: That is a perfect note to end it on. Steve, thank you so much again for coming on the show. You are welcome anytime to continue this conversation. The final, final thing I have to ask is just to for you to remind my listeners in your most badass voice possible that, height is just a number, not a limit.

Steve Serio: Guys. Height is just a number. It's not a limit. And Jillian, thank you so much for having me on the show.

Jillian Curwin: Always Looking Up is hosted by Jillian Curwin and edited and produced by Ben Curwin. Please make sure to rate review and subscribe and follow on Spotify so that you never miss an episode. Follow me on Instagram at @jill_ilana and the podcast @alwayslookingup.podcast for updates and check out my blog JillianIlana.com for more content about what it is like to be a little person in an average sized world. Thanks for listening. See you next week.

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