Briauna Mariah On The Importance Of Authenticity In Fashion

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Jillian Curwin: Hi everyone. Welcome to Always Looking Up, the podcast where no one is overlooked and height is only a number, never a limit, hosted by me, Jillian Curwin. Each week I'll be having a conversation about what it is like to live in a world that is not necessarily designed for you.

In this week's episode, I sat down with Briauna Mariah. Briauna is the founder and CEO of We Speak Model Management, a non-traditional model management that gives a voice to models who deserve to be celebrated. We discuss the founding of We Speak, the difference between authentic and inauthentic disability representation, and the need to stop being afraid of disability, both inside the fashion industry and in society at large. Let's get into it.

Hi, Briauna.

Briauna Mariah: Hello.

Jillian Curwin: How are you?

Briauna Mariah: I'm great. How are you?

Jillian Curwin: I'm great. I am very excited to be talking with you, to have you on the podcast. For me, this has been a long time coming, so I'm very excited to have this conversation with you today.

Briauna Mariah: Excited to be here.

Jillian Curwin: For my listeners who may not know who you are, why don't you tell them a little bit about yourself?

Briauna Mariah: Yes. So, I am Briauna. I am the founder of We Speak, which is a modeling agency based in New York City that represents people of all backgrounds, regardless of measurements. We represent disabled models, we represent people of literally any background you could think of. We are championing underrepresented groups primarily. Like, that's our big focus.

Jillian Curwin: Which is so important as someone who, as a disabled person who's had an interest in fashion, as well as someone who's been on the agency side, more working with talent in film, TV and theater like, I cannot stress the importance of the work that you're doing, and we're going to get into that a little more in a second.

But I want to ask, because I would say that you are certainly an ally to the disabled community with what you're doing and just who you are as an individual. And I want to know, how do you define what it means to you to be an ally?

Briauna Mariah: That's a fun question. Well, I, I don't self-proclaim myself to be an ally just because the work that I do is from my heart and through my actions. You know, I, I align myself with the communities that I believe in. I think that came out in a way that makes sense.

Jillian Curwin: Mmmhmm.

Briauna Mariah: But I, I yeah. Do you want to say the question again?

Jillian Curwin: Sure. Yes. So I would say, based on your work that you're doing with We Speak, and having talked to you prior to this recording, that you are certainly an ally to the community. And, so then I want to know, how do you define what it means to be an ally?

Briauna Mariah: Yeah. So, I guess being an ally just means doing the work and not necessarily expecting praise, not expecting to be, you know, recognized for the work that you're doing, and doing it because you believe in the communities that you work with. And the work that I do is also very much ingrained in just learning. So there's a lot of learning to do. I'll be the first to admit that. And then also there are no right answers to the work that we do. That's a, that's a big piece of it too, because, um, there's so many different ways to go about something, and they can all be right.

Jillian Curwin: Mmhmm. I think that's so important. And I think in your allyship, you're doing something that, from what I've seen, both within the talent agent side, and then this is someone who's very interested in fashion that I'm not seeing other people doing, is that you started We Speak where you said we will represent anybody. And I think you definitely, knowing some of the disabled models on your roster like, really take pride in them and really do work to get them the opportunities in the same way you would for a non-disabled model who gets, you know, who is what you typically see in fashion. And so I want to know, like, what empowered you to start We Speak? Where, like, did you know what it was going to be when you started it? 

Briauna Mariah: Yeah, so We Speak emerged out of my own personal industry trauma. But as I learned, and grew, and the agency grew, I, I just became very ingrained in the communities that I was representing and learning so much. So I think it was just, over time, something that transformed into what it is today.

Jillian Curwin: And where did you learn how to be an agent?

Briauna Mariah: That was all self-taught. I, I, I worked with modeling agencies. I was signed to miscellaneous agencies, and I knew the basics of how an agency worked. So I kind of just, I always said, in the beginning years, fake it till you make it. And I was doing that until one day I wasn't taking it anymore. I realized.

Jillian Curwin: I think that's so true. And again, like having been an agent, like there's… I think the way I learned, and like talking to other agents more in the talent field like, they said like it's just they learned it. Some of them started in the mailroom. Some of them started as interns. Some of them were in the business being represented, and they just kind of watched and learned, and then that's how I think you develop what it is to be an agent. And being an agent, you're certainly someone's advocate as well, which I think is equally as important. I think especially for an agency like, in the modeling sense, like you're really advocating for these people to be seen by an industry that is known to be and thrives on exclusivity.

Briauna Mariah: Mmmhmm.

Jillian Curwin: So like, what was that like for you, with building up your roster, knowing that you're adding models who are typically not like, seen in fashion?

Briauna Mariah: It's been a challenge. And for all of the reasons that you would imagine it to be a challenge. The industry itself, we're operating within an industry that is inherently based on exclusivity, based on lookism, based, based on tokenism, based on categorization of individuals, putting people into boxes, literally formulating who your target market is and saying that that's the person that we need to have in our campaign. What does that person look like and defining what that looks like? It's such an interesting time that we're in because representing diversity is problematic on many levels, as well as really empowering. At the same time, like the industry has made strides and people, more and more, see themselves represented. But at the same time, are those narratives true and real? Are they saying the right narratives? Are they truly representing the communities in a way that is authentic? And the answer is no. Not so much.

Jillian Curwin: I was going to say, can you dive a little deeper into how it is problematic?

Briauna Mariah: Yeah, well, I, I don't think that I can speak to that as much as somebody who…I’m, I'm represented in the media.

Jillian Curwin: Mmmhmm.

Briauna Mariah: I don't feel that, that pain point as personally as somebody else might. I think that the reason it's problematic is very nuanced and more of a person-, on a on a personal level like, it's,  it's different for each person.

Jillian Curwin: Gotcha. And then how is it on the flip side? Like more positive? Like, how is it changing?

Briauna Mariah: Yeah. And also going back to that, that previous question, as far as the technical, the technical side of it being problematic. On set, there's a lot of issues on set as far as making sure that people are properly taken care of, not just represented in their narratives. So there is that and there, there are I mean, more specifics to that.

And as far as the, the positive side, again, I can't necessarily speak to that, again, because I am represented in the media. But even if you look at, I guess, the, the new Little Mermaid movie, for example. Like, all the TikToks of little black girls looking at that trailer and feeling so uplifted, I think that that is adorable. And we can take it at face value without focusing on, you know, the more nuanced side of that.

Jillian Curwin: Right.

Briauna Mariah: We can just take that at face value and, you know, be happy for that, that little girl.

Jillian Curwin: Exactly. And I think that's so much of what I'm doing with these platforms is to really say that like, this for my younger self, this is for people who aren't seen, or who have felt that they aren’t seen, that they haven't had their voices heard. And, like you said, with looking at the reaction videos of all the little black girls seeing Halle Bailey as Ariel, like…Representation is powerful. It is really powerful. And it's, you know, it's just powerful to feel seen. But it also, like, empowers you as an individual to say, I can do this, I'm capable. And there is somebody out there, that society is telling me that I'm capable just by having someone represent you. So I think that is so important and it's, again, so important, particularly in fashion, because we all get just every day. We all put on clothing, you know, whether we say we're into fashion or not, we all get dressed every day. And so, being seen in an industry that really affects everyone is so important.

Briauna Mariah: Yeah, exactly.

Jillian Curwin: So, with your background as a model, and then using that as an agent, how do you know when to really push in a casting for diversity? For your diverse models who maybe aren't what you typically see in fashion? And when do you know to kind of pull back and say, okay, we'll give you….we’ll present what you’re more expecting? Like, how do you know who to submit for what projects?

Briauna Mariah: That's a really good question. And something that is constantly being balanced. I think, maybe more so in the beginning, I would submit anyone and everyone for everything, regardless of what they were expecting. And then as I learn each individual person, and the dynamics with these, the clients, the casting, production, everyone. As I learn a little bit more about them, and what they're actually going to look at versus what they're not, it's, it's a balancing act. I will say I think a lot of agencies only submit the very few disabled models that are out there for breakdowns that ask for disabled models. We don't do that. I mean, we do submit our models for those opportunities, but we submit them for other opportunities as well. We don't exclude people to the extent that people are excluded within the industry because we believe that everybody deserves that representation.

Models with disabilities deserve to be in high fashion, and we envision them, all of our talent, in high fashion, and that's why we sign them. So when we're pushing a model, and developing a model, half of the battle is being ready. And then when that right opportunity comes along, they're already ready, and we're submitting them.

Jillian Curwin: Mmhmm.

Briauna Mariah: So, it is a balance. It's definitely a balance. Because there are some people that we know we have to maybe, maybe this, this casting person we know won't look at somebody this way, but maybe we can present them in a different way. Maybe we can present them with a more in-depth little bio, or whatever it is that they're looking for. If we feel that a model fits the brief, regardless of whether or not they are disabled, we will push for them.

Jillian Curwin: I love that. Can you explain to people who may not know, like, exactly what a breakdown is and like, what it looks like when you see it?

Briauna Mariah: Yeah. So a breakdown is an incoming request to us, and most other agencies in the region, outlining the details of a photo shoot that they're casting for. And it'll have any number of details in it. They, they vary greatly. So, and then we just, we go from there. We, we have an idea of who they're looking for. If not, we ask more questions potentially, more questions on, you know, rates, usage, whatever it is about that project that we need to know. And then we, and then we present them our models.

Jillian Curwin: And when you're presenting a model like what, what is included in that presentation?

Briauna Mariah: So it's usually a digital package of, of models. We use a specific platform.

Jillian Curwin: Gotcha.

And then going into like, you have the roster now. So, when you're finding new models or when you were building, going back to when you're building We Speak like, how did you find the models with disability? Because, again, seeing the…watching the industry for a long time, there really isn't disabled models, and speaking for myself like, I never thought I could be a model. So like how did you find disabled people who said, I can model, screw what the industry says?

Briauna Mariah: I think, I think that the people who find, found and continue to find We Speak, recognize that we're not looking for that standard model. So, some of it was submissions. Some of it was also like scouting online and like, viral videos. We scouted Chelsea Werner with a viral video in like, 2017 or something. So it’s, it's a combination of things. And like, these days we definitely heavily look at Instagram. And, I mean, we, just we get a lot of submissions now.

Jillian Curwin: Gotcha. I was going to ask, because you talked about Instagram, like, how has social media…And again, knowing a couple of models on your roster and really seeing them build these brands for themselves on these platforms. How has social media changed the game?

Briauna Mariah: Social media has been changing the game as We Speak has been growing. So it has almost been like, very just something, just something that I know as a fact, that people look at your Instagram. Instagram is a really great platform to build a brand, a brand identity, and to really focus on who you are at the core through an, a certain aesthetic. And if you've got that aesthetic, if you've got that brand, if you've got that look that they're looking for, they… it is a, it's a powerful tool. Oftentimes, they look at Instagrams more so than their portfolio on the, on the website.

Jillian Curwin: That's very interesting. And it doesn't surprise me because I feel like Instagram, it's something that's very accessible and I feel like so many people are using it to, again, like you said, build their own individual brands, and it's giving them an audience that normally wouldn't see them. And so then they are seeing them, you know, and they're seeing…It's not just you're seeing their photos, you're seeing how people interact and engage with their photos, too, and see that, oh, this is actually, we want to see this person in fashion, essentially, by seeing like how their engagement rates are. So I think that…

Briauna Mariah: Yeah.

Jillian Curwin: Is definitely because we don't see that with a…Go ahead.

Briauna Mariah: You're, you’re selling a lifestyle on Instagram.

Jillian Curwin: Mmmhmm.

Briauna Mariah: And if that lifestyle fits that target market, that target audience that they, the brand, has defined in their head, then potentially you're a great fit for their campaigns.

Jillian Curwin: Exactly. And they can't see that if they're just looking at someone's portfolio. They can't see how their audience is interacting and responding to their images whereas, if you go on Instagram, you can see that. And it kind of…Does it make it easier for disabled models to get cast through Instagram versus getting cast like, through their portfolio?

Briauna Mariah: Um, I mean, our models in particular, maybe. I'm not…I think there's a certain type of opportunity that tends to come from Instagram, and then there's other opportunities that don't. So I think it's a combination of things.

Jillian Curwin: Gotcha. When you were starting…

Briauna Mariah: We…

Jillian Curwin: Go ahead.

Briauna Mariah: We are still actively submitting people for campaigns, so…

Jillian Curwin: Right.

Briauna Mariah: People are seen on that level and they're also seen on this level, through the agency.

Jillian Curwin: Gotcha. So it's kind of like a balance?

Briauna Mariah: Yeah.

Jillian Curwin: Gotcha.

When you were starting We Speak did people doubt you, or maybe try to discourage you from being such an inclusive agency and really making it a priority to represent disabled models?

Briauna Mariah: So, I will say I didn't get specific pushback against representing disabled models. Nothing anyone would ever say to my face anyways, as well. I… But it, it was a challenge, and continues to be a challenge, to get disability representation the platform it really, truly deserves, rather than tokenizing a very select few. Specifically speaking about the fashion luxury space. There is a little bit more representation in the commercial space, but it's not much better. I think that there’s invisible pushback that we're not quite aware of, but we're experiencing, and we can see it when it's happening.

Jillian Curwin: Mmmhmm.

Briauna Mariah: Because we see the fluctuations, and we see the campaigns, and we see who we're submitting and then who's getting options, so not booked but being requested to hold their time. And there, there are definitely patterns and we're in a, we're in a funky place right now. The industry is, is figuring things out, but possibly regressing a little bit.

Jillian Curwin: That doesn't surprise me. And I'm saying this just based off, and this will come out… I mean, Fashion Week is done, New York Fashion Week. I think the European Fashion Weeks, I think they're now in Paris right now. But just seeing the representation at New York Fashion Week, in saying that like it's regressing a little bit in terms of having more diverse bodies on the runways, I think that's a valid point to make because there really wasn't. There was a few in every show. And I know some, you know, models on your roster, both Bri and Julian who have I've had on the show before and our friends of mine, were at…wheeled at Fashion Week. So I know that they were there.

But I'm curious to know though like, knowing that there are influencers who are advocating for more diversity in fashion, specifically high fashion, and not just disability, but in seeing just more diverse bodies in general. Why do you think, though, then…? And that it seems to be that designers say that they're listening, and these high fashion brands say that they're listening. Why do you think there is this regression?

Briauna Mariah: That's a good question. Um, it's hard to say, and it's really also hard to pinpoint what exactly…I mean, we're in the moment as, as we speak. We're in this moment and watching patterns. So it's hard to say if, specific to disability representation, if it was kind of a, a fad, a fad that kind of had its roller coaster moment up and now it's kind of on the down. Maybe it'll come back up. I mean like, the industry as a whole is a roller coaster, and any one individual model will have dry periods and will have really great periods. So, as far as why? I don't know. I mean, I, I can have suspicions that there is an underlying fear of disability, and maybe they feel that they've, they've had their moment of, of representing disability and that they need to mix it up. I don't know.

Jillian Curwin: I don't think you're wrong. And I had Bri on and her episode came out… As we’re recording this her episode came out this week where we talked about it, this fear of disability. And I think it's valid. I think that there is an inherent societal fear of disability and it definitely comes across in the fashion industry. And it frustrates me because I agree that disability is kind of treated like a trend, or it's treated like a moment, and it's not… we're not treated like people…

Briauna Mariah: Mmmhmm.

Jillian Curwin: In a sense of like people that we should be dressing, people who get dressed. And I think that, particularly with high fashion, they're saying, well, if we don't do adaptive wear, then we don't have to include disability. And I think that's not, or that shouldn't be the case. I think you can still adapt any garment for any disabled body. And again, there are disabled people who want to wear your clothes. So why are you saying no? And it's, it's a tokenism that like, it just it frustrates…as a disabled person, as a person who just loves fashion. It frustrates me when I see it.

Briauna Mariah: Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's a very interesting, complex, frustrating situation for the industry to be in. For sure.

Jillian Curwin: Do you think that… I mean, like, are you optimistic that it, that some of the changes that are happening are going to be permanent? And that maybe won't regress as far back as I think sometimes it has before? Or do you really think that like… Let me rephrase that to say what really needs to happen in order for there to be like, real permanent, positive change in the industry?

Briauna Mariah: Hmmm. Authentic representation. Really like, looking at the campaigns from, from marketing all the way through the end of production from an authentic lens. And having more diverse decision makers, internally, in these corporations, which is something that takes time.

Jillian Curwin: Is there inauthentic disability representation in fashion happening right now? And if so, what does that look like? So that we, people can kind of tell the difference when they're seeing disability in fashion right now.

Briauna Mariah: Hmm. Um, I guess inauthentic would probably look like an inaccessibly. If you look at their, their brand, you go to their brand, you go to their store, you go to their, you know, website, whatever. And if it feels inaccessible for whatever reasons, that's probably a good hint into that.

Jillian Curwin: That's a really, that's a, that's a good point. Okay. So like… that's a really good point. And I'm sorry, I just lost my train of thought there for a second. Yeah, because again, like…So then like, how does the brands then show that they're accessible if they're not necessarily doing adaptive wear?

Briauna Mariah: I'm not sure.

Jillian Curwin: Okay. You don't. Yeah. I was gonna say you didn't have… I meant to say like, you didn't have to have an answer. I'm just wondering like… I'll rephrase it to say that can a brand still be accessible even if they don't want to go into the adaptive design space in the sense of like, designing adaptive wear in the way that, using an example, Tommy has done with Tommy adaptive?

Briauna Mariah: I mean, as an able-bodied person, I believe that the brands can achieve accessibility without having an accessible line. But also as an able-bodied person, I don't know what that looks like.

Jillian Curwin: As a disabled person, I don't necessarily know what that looks like either. So I think that's fair to say [laughter] Because I think, and I think it's because the industry doesn't want to seem to try.

Briauna Mariah: Right.

Jillian Curwin: So we don't know what doesn't work, or what won't work, because there's no evidence that they're really, and this is again from me seeing…I know that there are some brands who are working with consultants, and that this does take time. But, as of this recording in October 2022, right after Fashion Week, I'm not seeing brands really try. So I don't know what will work and what doesn't. But I think just to, even if you're saying I can't, I don't know how to do adaptive wear, there's still ways to be accessible to the disabled community. And this is an industry that thrives on being innovative and being creative. There are some of the best creative minds in this industry. So like, I want to see them try. I think that's…

Briauna Mariah: Yeah.

Jillian Curwin: You know, at minimum, what a lot of disabled people are asking and advocating for, is for you to try.

Briauna Mariah: Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I had to think back to our, our very first conversation. We were kind of touching on this topic. And how do we achieve…? How does a brand achieve like, being able to have the right measurements and sizes for all bodies? And where is, where is the line as far as like, how many different types of bodies are acceptable for them to truly be inclusive? And my thought was that, I mean, maybe they need some sort of alteration service, something like that, but then also I, I thought about that, that conversation again when I saw that video. I don't remember which brand it was. I think it was Paris Fashion Week with Bella Hadid and that spray-on dress.

Jillian Curwin: I know where you're going with this kick. Go ahead.

Briauna Mariah: Well, I mean, yeah, that's exactly where I'm going with this. Like, a spray on dress like, that fits literally any body type.

Jillian Curwin: Yes. So for context, or for people who maybe didn't see this viral moment, because it really did go viral outside the fashion industry. I don't remember the name of the designer, but if you just go to, I'm sure it's on Bella's Instagram, but she closed this show in… Was it Milan?

Briauna Mariah: Umm.

Jillian Curwin: I think it was in Milan. It was in Milan or like, Paris Fashion Week. And she comes out and she looks, she's wearing underwear, but she's like, not wearing clothes. And these… they literally spray painted a dress on her. And it wasn’t body paint. Like, it became fabric. And then she did her runway walk.

Briauna Mariah: Yeah.

Jillian Curwin: And like, if they can do that, I have two points to say. If they can do that one, they can put the time and energy that they put into developing that, into designing, into like, figuring out ways to, with fabric, to have to work with disability. Like, if they like…Where had that time gone? Because like we can't…Like how are…How are you going to sell that in a store? Is my question.

Briauna Mariah: Mmmhmm.

Jillian Curwin: Is that, is like, where could…Could we have put that time and energy, as fabulous as that was, and as a major moment of that was, is that really what we need right now?

Briauna Mariah: Mmhmm.

Jillian Curwin: Second, though, if that is going to be where we're going, then you could have put anybody… It didn't have to be Bella Hadid's body there.

Briauna Mariah: Mmmhmm.

Jillian Curwin: It could have been a disabled model's there. It could have been a curvy model's there. Like, it didn't have to be Bella Hadid. But in saying, in putting her there, and Bella Hadid is gorgeous. And this is nothing against Bella. But you're still saying that like, even this type of fashion is only going to be, you know, we only want to see this on a straight…

Briauna Mariah: Yeah.

Jillian Curwin: Model type body size.

Briauna Mariah: How cool would that have been, to have a disabled body instead of a runway, traditional body for that moment?

Jillian Curwin: It would have…

Briauna Mariah: That would have, that would have broken the Internet even more, to be honest.

Jillian Curwin: A hundred percent. Like, and now like, I'm picturing Bri in that spot and like, it just, the impact that would have made. Because then they're saying even if a spray-on dress is not accessible in stores like, that disability like, just we can design in a way, we can, in our way, we can design for disability. That would have been what that moment said, and it would have broken the Internet.

Briauna Mariah: Yeah.

Jillian Curwin: So then looking ahead and like, knowing that there are the European shows going on right now, and knowing that designers have already, you know… Yes, the now the, theoretical tents have come down. I don't think they're, the shows are in the tents anymore. Fashion Week here in New York is over. But, you know that the designers are already starting to think about the spring or, and maybe have already started designing. Like, what would you want to say to them as an agent with this roster of incredible, diverse talent as they're getting ready to start their next collection?

Briauna Mariah: Hmm. I don't, I don't know what to say to them. That's the problem. I was invited to a speech last year that didn't happen, where it was going to be in front of all of these luxury European brands. And it was very difficult to figure out what needed to be said. There needs to be a relatability, and I, so I was going for that angle. And as far as I didn't, I didn't end up doing the speech because it was canceled. But, um, yeah. Just trying to relate to them on a certain level and then getting them to change the way that they see representation through an authentic lens. Like, beginning to educate from that level I think could be really powerful.

Jillian Curwin: I agree. And I think that, you know, we need to see it. And again like, I think to add on to it like, to stop being afraid.

Briauna Mariah: Yeah.

Jillian Curwin: I think that's a really big thing. Like, stop being afraid of disability, and we recognize that it is very much ingrained into the history and to the roots of who we are as people, not just inside the fashion industry, but society at large. But recognize that this is a huge customer market that you are shutting out, and have been shutting out for years. But, if you're… let that fear go. And recognize that we know that the first attempt isn't going to, probably not going to work, we get that. We just want to see, again, we want to see you try. And we will support you, show up and…Listen to us when we tell you you are wrong. Don't you know that the first attempt might not work? No. That you're going to get some criticism from the disabled community, you know, that we're going to have, but that criticism is going to be constructive, and then take that and learn from it. And don't just say, well, I tried. Again like, don't treat it like, your attempt like a token to say, well, I tried and it didn't work, and then go back.

Briauna Mariah: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And you know, like the fear even, it comes from a place of not, not knowing and that's where the education needs to be. So, I absolutely agree there.

Jillian Curwin: Is there a project that you worked on with We Speak that you're most proud of?

Briauna Mariah: I'm extremely proud of the Disability Pride shoot that we collaborated with Maybelline on. We shot it in July and that was Disability Awareness Month. We shot it very late into July and it went live at the end of the month, and it's been continuing on. That was a major milestone.

Jillian Curwin: I was gonna say when that dropped, I literally dropped my phone because it was, it was such a moment and this was, you know…Disability Pride Month comes right after LGBT Pride Month, and every brand turns rainbow and celebrates Pride Month in June in one way, shape or form. July 1st comes around and really until the Maybelline campaign, there was no celebration of disability pride whatsoever. So seeing that, and not expecting it, and seeing it from a beauty brand was major. Absolutely major. And that is something you hundred percent should be proud of. And I'm like, incredibly proud of what you did and the models in it, because it's a moment and it's still going like, I'm seeing still photos and videos from that shoot now and again, it's October, and that's a brand who said disability is beautiful.

Briauna Mariah: Mmmhmm.

Jillian Curwin: What was it like for you seeing, you know, as the agent, as someone who helped put it together, when it finally like, seeing the final product, what was that moment like for you?

Briauna Mariah: I was dying inside. I was, I was sweating and screaming and, and I was waiting for hours, because it went out so late on like, I think it was July 31st. And it was like, 7:30 p.m. and I was like, literally waiting all night for it because they were editing the video still. Like, they had agreed to this so quickly and turned everything around so quickly with us. Like, they'd never done that with any project ever, according to them. So, that alone was very cool. But they were still editing the video the night that it went live.

Jillian Curwin: Wow. Oh, wow. [laughter] I mean, wow. [laughter] I mean, that's amazing. And like, again, that is such a moment and like, thank you for…through you, through We Speak, just doing that, for putting that together, for working with them. And I mean, it's incredible. Like, and again, we're still seeing it now. So like it's resonating, you know, few months after Disability Pride, and again shows the importance and again, it's showing that disability is beautiful.

Briauna Mariah: Yeah, exactly.

Jillian Curwin: Um, looking ahead, five, ten years, where do you want to see We Speak? 

Briauna Mariah: That, that is something that I am still personally developing.

Jillian Curwin: Okay.

Briauna Mariah: Yeah, I need I need a clearer vision, but I see We Speak taking over.

Jillian Curwin: I do too. As much as we say…

Briauna Mariah: Yeah. I mean like, that…I don't have any specifics, but just take over the world basically. 

Jillian Curwin: No, but I see it too. And honestly, like as much as we said like, we feel like it's regressing, that we're going backwards in some ways. I really see We Speak like, taking over the industry and saying that we're here, we're here to stay. Disability representation is happening and we're leading it in the sense that we have disabled models on our roster and going to see them.

Briauna Mariah: Yeah, yeah. So that's where I see it.

Jillian Curwin: Love it. Umm. Who do you look up to?

Briauna Mariah: I, I have a really close relationship with my mom, actually. She helped me with the beginning stages of starting We Speak too. So, she's always my first answer when it comes to that question.

Jillian Curwin: Awww, I love that. My, my mom would be too, for me. And I'm not just saying that because I know she listens. Umm. I love that.

But are there any questions I have not asked that you would like to answer?

Briauna Mariah: Um, no, I don't think so. Nothing comes to mind.

Jillian Curwin: Okay Okay.

Briauna, it's been amazing talking with you again, like carrying on our conversation from before, and really learning more about We Speak and, you know, sharing your story, and sharing We Speak’s story, and trying these model stories on here. I think it's so important. And again like, kind of going back to what we were talking about like, Ariel like, little girls listen to this, little in the sense of like little people also like little in the sense of young, young, disabled girls listen to this and say, oh, there's an agency that's representing me.

Briauna Mariah: Mmmhmm.

Jillian Curwin: Maybe my dream of being a model isn't too big a dream. It's possible. So hopefully this is resonating with someone. It is resonating with me, for sure.

Where can people follow you and follow We Speak?

Briauna Mariah: Yeah. So, the Instagram is just @wespeakmodels, that's the handle. Should I spell that?

Jillian Curwin: You can. Yeah.

Briauna Mariah: It’s w-e-s-p-e-a-k-m-o-d-e-l-s. And then mine's @briaunamariah.

Jillian Curwin: Awesome. And I will have links to follow in the show notes as well as on the transcription. So you can follow, support, see all the incredible models on We Speak’s roster, and see Briauna absolutely slay the fashion game because she slays.

Briauna Mariah: Thank you.

Jillian Curwin: You're welcome.

So the final thing I do with my guests before signing off is, it's kind of like an icebreaker but I do it at the end because I feel like it's more fun that way. So, I have five questions and I want to hear your favorite in each one, or five categories.

Briauna Mariah: Okay.

Jillian Curwin: Okay. Favorite book.

Briauna Mariah: Time Traveler's Wife.

Jillian Curwin: Ooo, I've never read that, but that's been on my TBR list for a while. Okay…

Briauna Mariah: It's a good one.

Jillian Curwin: That's what everyone says. I need to read it. I like going through the A Court of Thorns and Roses series right now and it's been taking up all my reading time.

Briauna Mariah: I read that a long time ago, and it gives me all the nostalgic feels. 

Jillian Curwin: Oh, we're going to... Okay, so we're going to be talking about that as soon as… we’re going to talk about that off mic because I could go on and on, but…

Favorite TV show.

Briauna Mariah: Of all time would be Lost…

Jillian Curwin: Okay.

Briauna Mariah: Regardless of the ending.

Jillian Curwin: Confession. I have never watched an episode of Lost. Ever. I don't know if that's good or bad based on what I've heard.

Briauna Mariah: I mean, I grew up on it. Like, I was in middle school and it was the thing I got to look forward to like, with my family and stuff. So, I think it brought us together too. It was just a really fun time.

Jillian Curwin: Love that.

Favorite drink

Briauna Mariah: Tea.

Jillian Curwin: What kind of tea?

Briauna Mariah: Any kind of tea.

Jillian Curwin: Yes, I agree.

Favorite piece of advice you've ever given.

Briauna Mariah: Um, that you can't fail unless… If failure doesn't exist in my mind because to fail at something, is to give up, and if you're giving up, there's a reason.

Jillian Curwin: Ooo.

Briauna Mariah: You're re focusing on something else. Um, that… I, I think I have a better way of saying that, but that's how it came out. So, we're going to stick with it.

Jillian Curwin: I like that. I really like that. That kind of shook me…Okay. That really resonated with me right now.

Okay, last one. Favorite piece of advice you've ever received.

Briauna Mariah: Hmmm. Don't look up. And there's context to that. My, my mom was, it was, it was, it was supposed to be a little trick of, of… Or maybe it was look up. She used to tell me to look up, and it always made me smile, and I, I hated it. [laughter[ Because she would always use it when I, when I was in a bad mood. So that was just like something funny.

Jillian Curwin: Love that. That is a perfect note to end on. Again, Briauna, thank you so much for coming on. It has truly been a pleasure speaking with you. You are welcome back anytime to talk about We Speak, maybe for spring fashion week. It's going to happen. Again, follow her, follow We Speak if you are not doing so at the moment, I will have links to do that in the show notes. The final, final thing I just have to ask is for you to remind my listeners in your most badass, most fierce voice possible that height is just a number, not a limit.

Briauna Mariah: Height is just a number, not a limit.

Jillian Curwin: Always Looking Up is hosted by Jillian Curwin and edited and produced by Ben Curwin. Please make sure to rate, review, and subscribe, and follow on Spotify so that you never miss an episode. Follow me on Instagram @jill_ilana and the podcast @alwayslookingup.podcast for updates and check out my blog, JillianIlana.com for more content about what it is like to be a little person in an average sized world.

Thanks for listening. See you next week.

Follow We Speak:

Instagram: @wespeakmodels

Website: https://www.wespeakmodels.com

Follow Briauna:

Instagram: @briaunamariah

Listen To Briauna Mariah On Disability Authenticity In Fashion

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