The Curwin Siblings On Making Today Our Masterpiece

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Foreground: A dark green box with an older photo of Michael Curwin, a man with grey hair wearing a green polo and black pants, holding Jillian on his lap, a little girl with brown hair and bangs, wearing a black shirt, black and white checked shorts, white socks and black shoes, and Ben, a little boy with brown hair wearing white pajamas with multi-colored objects printed on them, sitting on a green couch with brown, plaid pillows. Below is the white text “#73 The Curwin Siblings - Making Today Our Masterpiece.” Below the text is a white line, the rewind, pause, and fast forward symbols.

Jillian Curwin: Hi everyone. Welcome to always looking up, the podcast where no one is overlooked and height is only a number, never a limit, hosted by me, Jillian Curwin. Each week, I will be having a conversation about what it is like to live in a world that is not necessarily designed for you.

This week’s episode is a little different. I sat down with my brother to celebrate our father who we lost on Halloween 2015. We discuss the man he was, his legacy, and share just a few of our favorite memories with him.

Let's get into it. Hi, Ben.

Ben Curwin: Hey, Jill. Happy Dwarfism Awareness Day. How you doing?

Jillian Curwin: Thank you. I'm doing well. How are you?

Ben Curwin: I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Actually, correct me, is it, is it International Dwarfism Awareness Day or just Dwarfism Awareness Day? I want to make sure I have it correct for all our listeners.

Jillian Curwin: It is International Dwarfism Awareness Day, which I thought it was just, like, National U.S. Dwarfism Awareness Day. But it is international and it is because, at least to the best of my knowledge, it is because it is Billy Barty's birthday today. Billy Barty was the founder of Little People of America. So that is why it is on October 25th. And if I'm wrong, someone please DM me.. Let me know if I'm wrong and I'll correct myself in the future episode.

Ben Curwin: In the comments, let us know everything we say that's incorrect.

Jillian Curwin: Yeah.

Ben Curwin: Please.

Jillian Curwin: Please.

Ummm, so, I guess we should explain why we're recording this episode, which, um… And part of it is because of the episode that's going to be coming out after this one. But October is a hard month for the family, for our immediate family with just the three of us, and our extended family as well, as well as many friends - friends of the family, and as well as people we don't know who have just been impacted by what happened, which is the day this is going to come out is Halloween. We're recording this on the 25th. And seven years, on Halloween will mark the anniversary of when our father passed away. So we just wanted to record this episode to kind of talk about him. We did invite our mom, but due to technical difficulties, she was not able to join us. But we did invite her. We did want to have her be a part of this conversation, but she just, we couldn't make it happen. And another reason why we're doing this is because next week I recorded an episode…Umm, I invited Zane Landin, who was amazing, you know, guest that we had on before, and we talked about grieving. And before that episode came out, because we really kind of delve deep into grief and how it can be disabling, and we really shared our stories, we wanted to, before that episode comes out, kind of talk about our dad.

Ben Curwin: And, and to give a little peek behind the curtain from the, from the editing standpoint, I will just say that, you know, I think you're all going to really love and appreciate next week's episode. The conversation you and Zane had is, is beautiful and poignant and very honest and raw as well. I think it's one of the best ones we've ever done, probably. I'm very excited to be able to share it with, with our audience and the world as a whole. But yeah, I definitely think this was… it's still important, I think, to have this conversation between you and I and…

Jillian Curwin: Yeah, so I again, like you said, like love talking to Zane, but definitely wanted to,I think, share, you know, our story about who our father was to us. Because when I talk to Zane, this again is a little sneak preview, like we really kind of do get into what happened and, you know, there's so much more than what happened seven years ago to our father than just what happened. So I think we really wanted to take this time to discuss it, to discuss him. He's not in it. He's a him.

Ben Curwin: Yeah. I guess… I think an interesting place for us to sort of begin this conversation is, you know, what have your last six Halloweens really been like? What do you consider today, you know, what is, what does this day mean for you now moving forward?

Jillian Curwin: Halloween is still hard. I think it's definitely…I don’t want to say gotten easier to celebrate in the sense of like, celebrating Halloween. I think it's become easier to focus on the positive in terms of celebrating our father and the impact he had in our lives. And I think that definitely has, you know, trying to focus on that has definitely made it easier to kind of get through the day. Last year was the first time I think I went out since he passed away and I did go home early with my friends. They all understood. And like this year we're doing something much more low key, which is what I honestly prefer regardless of the time of year it is. But yeah. What's it like for you?

Ben Curwin: See that's I feel like a more complicated thing because I, I love Halloween. I have always loved Halloween. It has always been one of my favorite holidays. I mean, I love… I mean, everyone loves candy, of course. But like, I love dressing up. I love horror movies, even though I am very easily frightened by them. And, you know, the first Halloween, I think, was definitely the toughest. But then I went off to college and it's very hard not to participate in Halloween when you're in college and in your early twenties and everything. So I, I feel like I've kind of reclaimed the day in a lot of ways. You know, it's not a day where I'm focusing on what I've lost, so that is just kind of something I tell myself and it keeps me going and it allows me to still love the day and, and yeah, I don't know. That's, that's definitely the way I've been trying to think about it.

Jillian Curwin: Okay.

But let's get into talking about him. So, our dad was one of four brothers. He was the oldest, from what we've heard from the brothers and from Grandma and Grandpa, he was the naughtiest...

Ben Curwin: Yeah.

Jillian Curwin: In the sense that he got in the most trouble. Um, Brooklyn born Red Sox fan, somehow convinced two of his three brothers to also be Red Sox fans. Smart. Talkative, which explains you.

Ben Curwin: Accurate.

Jillian Curwin: We were, we were joking… We were going through his report cards and… my mom, my grandparents, and I were going through my dad's report cards one day and, recently, and we were reading them and we just came to the conclusion that this explains who Ben is because he's literally, he's the exact… just the younger version of my dad. You could have just substituted Michael for my brother in these report cards. They were quite hilarious.

Ben Curwin: I will continue to take that as a compliment.

Jillian Curwin: Yes, and it is a compliment. When we're saying it, it is a compliment. But he decided he, you know, loved sports, went to law school. Again, made great friends to, you know, who we are very close with to this day. They've always been there for us. And he became a lawyer. I think he started in private practice and just knew that he wanted to advocate for justice and, to do that, he became a prosecutor. He met our mom. And then eventually they started dating, and they fell in love, and September of ‘92, they got married. And I say, and people think I'm joking but I'm really not, that if my future husband does not look at me the way our father looked at our mother as I am walking down the aisle, I am turning around, wedding dress and all, and going on the honeymoon by myself. Because the look that he is giving our mom as she is walking down the aisle is just one of pure love, like it is, you know, it's what girls kind of like dream about or read about in books. Like, it is just that he, he just, he truly loved her. And then they… you know, three years later, I came along. Yeah, I, you know, I do have the pleasure of being the person who made our father a father.

What would you say? Just… how would you describe our childhood with daddy?

Ben Curwin: It was a very fun childhood. You know, he was very involved with us. He was very big in supporting us and whatever stupid or inane things we decided we wanted to do. He and mom, you know, provided a phenomenally loving home as well. You know, there was always a lot of safety, and comfort, and support from them. But he was also, he was just very… He, he definitely enjoyed his little like, you know, as we got older, he would have ritualistic type things that he and I would do together, all the time, and then things that you and he would do together. So he, you know, never felt like we were fighting for his attention or fighting for, or sharing him when we didn't want to. Like, we had our things we would do all together, and then he always made time for each of us individually. He and I would go to a diner every week for breakfast. We would go bowling. You and him would watch sports, because I didn't like them yet, and talk about space a lot, or at least the Apollo program. I don't know if your interest ever extended beyond the Tom Hanks movie, but I know that his did.

Jillian Curwin: It did.

Ben Curwin: I'm sure it did. I just said, I don't know. I wasn't into space.

Jillian Curwin: Whatever. One thing I'll say…whatever.

I will say, though, like when you would go to him to a problem, and he would somehow have this sense to know whether or not you knew the answer, like whether or not you knew the answer, or whether or not you had the ability to figure out the answer. And if you did, he would not give you, he would not just give you the answer. He would work with you to help you solve the problem, or to you, for you to answer the question, if it was like something like schoolwork or something, but he wouldn't just give it to you. He wanted you… He wanted to you to one, have that like, feeling of achievement, of accomplishment. But he didn’t… I'm trying to think of how to phrase this correctly. He didn't want us to underestimate, never let us underestimate our abilities, ever.

Ben Curwin: Mmmhmm.

Jillian Curwin: And that's not, you know, whether it's physical, intellectual, he seemed to somehow have this like, innate sense of what we were capable of. And, you know, like looking back like, there are things that I don't think I would have done without his encouragement, without his just like, faith in me, and what he knew I could do or what he knew I couldn't do. I mean, I became… I worked in college athletics and pursued sport management because of, again, of our love of sports. But, you know, I, there were times where I doubted if I should be on the field. And he was like, no, you, you can do it. Same thing with school. Like with writing papers he would stay up with me, even when I was in Tulane and an hour behind, he would stay up with me as I was writing a paper, proofreading it, and again just pointing out what was wrong but not giving me the answer.

Ben Curwin: Yeah.

Jillian Curwin: He really wanted us to be able to be, to know that we could solve a problem, to believe in ourselves, I think as much as he believed in us. Because I think there are definitely times where he believed in me more than I believed in myself. Yeah, I think he just saw limitless potential in us, in Mom and he's very proud.

Like there are so many photos, and I know this pissed my mom off at the time, but looking back at it now, of like us walking in front of him. So it's literally us, you know, you don't see our faces, you just see our backs, or our butts, or our backs and our butts. And I think it was just, you know, sure, sometimes he was taking the photos just because he knew it annoyed my mom, our mom. But I think that was just because, like, he just loved us and he wanted to just capture these moments. And it's his perspective of how he's seeing us in that moment. And he wanted to just treasure that. Again, he could remember everything, he liked creating memories. You know, he would photograph when the car hit a certain mileage because it looked cool. Like, those were the things he wanted to capture.

Ben Curwin: Yeah, I think that, that goes to show like one of the defining things about him, in a way that could be remarkably irritating sometimes, but also kind of one of the best things about him, is he was, he was a really stubborn in some ways, in ways that made him like, a phenomenal attorney, because he would refuse to give anything less than 100% for, for his case and for his clients and the people he was trying to, you know, get justice for. And I think it's what made him a phenomenal father in a very similar ways that you were just describing, where he would not… He didn't believe in giving us easy answers if he knew that we were capable of getting the hard ones, no matter how much we would beg and moan and, and just plead with him to make things a little bit easier once in a while and just give us the answer so that we could take a break and move on. He never really let us do that, and I'm really happy that that was the case because it, it gave me the skills and the techniques that I still use to this day to face difficult challenges. And it was, it was a remarkable amount of encouragement that at the time is remarkably… can be remarkably frustrating, but really does help you grow and develop into the best person you can be. And I think that's what he, you know, intended all along.

Jillian Curwin: And I just, you know, I was thinking about like… He truly loved his family, and I'm not just talking about the three of us. I'm talking about the entire Curwin, Rotholz, Marcus family, Lobatto family, that we all are. He remembered every birthday, every anniversary and, more often than not, when midnight struck on that day, he would call or he would text. He would know what time zone you were in so he would call or text at that time zone. He, you know, and he wanted us to show, you know, to show how to love I think too. He really taught us like, how to love and how to just express appreciation.

Again, when we were looking through these report cards and just kind of going through like our dad's things and…at my grandparents house, we found the thank you note I wrote to them for my Bat Mitzvah. And, what they didn't know, is that my dad wrote out these paragraphs for thank you cards. And mind you a thank you card for Bat Mitzvah is like two index cards. That's how big it is. And I had to carefully write out each one. I was not allowed to make any cross outs, I was not allowed to shorten what he wrote, and you just, because in reading it, it's like there's just so much love in it. In the words that he had me write. And that, you know, and it just, you know, and when he passed, like I… it's why I took such time in writing all the thank you cards to everybody who reached out to us, because you see how much one person can make an impact, and how many people they can impact. And, you know..

Ben Curwin: I still have nightmares about those goddamn thank you cards. [laughter] I don't know if he did this for you, or if he came up with this after like, as a result of the process with you. But when I was doing it, he had like, a lettered script where it's like he would give me a note card with someone's name and address and there would just be a string of letters like A, D, B, C, G, and each of those letters would be a different phrase that I had like an, an index for…

Jillian Curwin: Oh no, I didn't have that.

Ben Curwin: And I'd have to write them in the correct…I’d have to write them in the correct order so he could do… So he was churning them out like nobody's business. And then I had to sit there painstakingly translating this gibberish shorthand of his and then, just like you said, I couldn't, I couldn't deviate a single word or letter from what his script was. And if my cursive was off or if I, you know, if it didn't look neat enough, or if it didn't look like I cared enough, I had to re-do it. And I had some really great thank you cards, but God, do I still, I still…

Jillian Curwin: Yeah no, he…

Ben Curwin: Thinking about it...

Jillian Curwin: He wrote out like, a script for me. And one thing, and then I'll let you kind of talk is like, he showed up for literally everything and anything that we were doing, big event or small. He would find, you know, he would show up to my dance recitals. He might not go for the whole thing, but he was there for what I was on stage. He was there for every softball game, every soccer game, any sport we played, any basketball game. He was there, you know, for every graduation, every ceremony at school that we were invited to and he was invited to he was there. You know, he like, purposely came to Tulane to see me, you know, to be there for the home, when we opened the stadium, he was there. He wanted to be there when he didn't have to be there. He had no…there was no reason for him to be there, but he wanted to just… And it was more for him. It wasn't even for me. He just wanted to say he was there on the first day, like the first game.

And he just loves celebrating life. Like, I think, you know, one of my happiest memories I have with him, even though it was at two in the morning and I was seven or eight, was being woken up because the Red Sox won the World Series, and he just wanted someone to celebrate with him and he wanted to take his photo, you know, things like that.

And just, you know, I remember… Do you remember this, where he would want to show us a movie that he thought we would like?

Ben Curwin: Yeah.

Jillian Curwin: And we had to give it 20 minutes. We had to sit. We couldn't be distracted. We couldn't be on our phones when, when we got cell phones. We couldn't be reading.

Ben Curwin: Full attention.

Jillian Curwin: We had to give it our full attention for 20 minutes.

Ben Curwin: Yupp.

Jillian Curwin: And at the 20 minute mark, literally at the 20 like, at the second it hit the 20 minute mark, we could say we're done, we don't want to…, we are not into it, we don't like this movie. Or, we could sit there and watch it with him. I don't think, I think I can maybe count on one hand the amount of times I gave up after 20 minutes for the movie he recommended.

Ben Curwin: I think I can name two or three examples, and I'm pretty sure I still ended up going back and watching them with him.

Jillian Curwin: Right. But he wanted us to experience everything.

Ben Curwin: Yeah.

Jillian Curwin: And he wanted to be there for our little moments. Again like, I'm thinking like, when I taught Zumba classes in, in the summer at Rowan, he would be my only student, but he was there, he couldn't… He was not a great…you know, he couldn’t dance, but he was he would show up.

Ben Curwin: I don’t know if I can picture that.

Jillian Curwin: It’s, it's okay, you don't need to picture that. Yeah, yeah. But he, he was just, he was there.

Ben Curwin: Yeah, he…it’s, it's more than that. It's that he, he would always make the time, you know, like… I think about the fact that like I, I've been out of the house now for, going on six years, and I talk to Mom pretty regularly. You know, I try to talk to her every day if I can. I, I usually don't go more than a few days without talking to her at least once. But even then, sometimes, it's like we talk for maybe 2 minutes. It's just a “Hello, how are you? Is everything okay? And then I'll talk to you later.” And that…and it's just really her and you that I do that for. Whereas he, despite working a very intense job and having a wife and two kids at home, he talked to his parents every day. He talked to his brothers constantly. He would reach out to all of his friends, friends that dated back to kindergarten, regularly. He knew what was going on in the lives of every single person he ever cared about. And he made the time to keep them included and keep them in his heart and in his mind. And that's just an incredible thing about him. I don't, I don't know how he managed it sometimes.

Jillian Curwin: Yeah. And I think it says a lot about him that it's been almost seven years since he, you know, there'll be a week that, you know, six years and…

Ben Curwin: It'll be seven years on the day you're listening to this.

Jillian Curwin: Right. As we're recording this, right now, it's been six years and 51 weeks. That would be something my father would have said.

Ben Curwin: 51 weeks and a day.

Jillian Curwin: 51 weeks and a day.

But we're still learning so much about him, about who he was. And that's not to say we didn't, he didn't let us know him. I just think that he was just this incredible, amazing person. And there is so much we could say about him and so many stories we could tell. And there are some stories that we could probably get in trouble for telling. But I think, you know, wanting to talk about him, and I do wish that mom was on and we'll do another episode when shem when we figure out the technical difficulties, to have her share what it was like to be his wife. You know, he was just, he was the best father a daughter could certainly have asked for. I'm not going to speak for you.

Ben Curwin: No, but you can in that regard.

Jillian Curwin: Okay, he was the best father a son could ask for as well. And, you know, we're still learning about him, and I don't think that there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about him, and question if he's proud of me, even though, again, I know the answer and I know that he is. And, I know, he's proud of us. And I know that he would absolutely love this podcast that we're doing…

Ben Curwin: Yeah.

Jillian Curwin: And the fact that we're doing it together as brother and sister I think would rock his world.

Ben Curwin: Yes, I think that's a really beautiful note to end on and move into our sort of closing pits, if you agree. I's your show, why don't you end it as you always do, I guess, whatever follow up questions or wrap up questions we all know you have.

Jillian Curwin: Well, it's weird because I don't, I, you know, who do we look up to? I think the answer for both of us is our dad.

Ben Curwin: Yeah.

Jillian Curwin: So I will just say, as we're wrapping things up, to stay tuned to next week's episode with Zane, where we really, we do talk a lot about what we experienced, in terms of losing someone that we love, and we talk about grief, which is again why we wanted to share our story first and reflect on who our father was before we kind of talk about the loss of him. And so stay tuned for that.

And if you want to see what I'm up to and see what's coming next on the podcast, you can follow me @jill_ilana, or the podcast @alwayslookingup.podcast, and you can follow me on Twitter where I’ll also  post updates as well @jillx3456. And yeah, do you have any final thoughts, anything, final sentiments?

Ben Curwin: Well, I, I don't use social media that much, as my friends and family all know. So if you would like to follow me, you're probably better off following Jill at all the places she listed, especially the podcast, because honestly you'll hear about me more there than you will from any of my own accounts. So please, let me just second going to follow Jill everywhere and anywhere and obviously following Always Looking Up.

And then I think I'm actually going to do my own little variant on final fast favorites before you get the chance to try and introduce it.

Jillian Curwin: Ooo.

Ben Curwin: Because you and I have played it before already. Anyway, you've asked me, I've asked you, everyone who's listened to the show knows all of our favorite blah, blah, blah.

Jillian Curwin: That’s true.

Ben Curwin: So I'm going to do…I, I've come up with a little, slightly shorter version, but something a little more thematic for the episode. So as we sort of brushed on a bit earlier, Dad loved, he loved movies, and TV, and music, and art, and everything like that. And he really loved sharing his interests with us.

Jillian Curwin: Yes.

Ben Curwin: So what I'm going to do is it's going to be the final fast favorites, but it's going to be things specifically that dad shared with us.

Jillian Curwin: Okay.

Ben Curwin: So we're going to start with your favorite movie that he showed you.

Jillian Curwin: I mean you hinted at it, and it is my favorite movie to this day. I know nearly every word and I'm not ashamed of that. And that would be Apollo 13.

Ben Curwin: Yeah, great movie. Everyone loves Tom Hanks. I would probably say, also, my favorite movie is one that he showed me which is Diner, which is a little Kevin Bacon sitcom from like the eighties. It's not, well, it's not all that well known honestly, but it's very fun. That or anything by Mel Brooks, honestly: Young Frankenstein, or, or Blazing Saddles, or History of the World, Part One, which he showed me all of those at far too young an age. Moving forward. Next one, what is your favorite song that he introduced you to? Because he loved showing us music.

Jillian Curwin: Oh, okay. It's not a song, necessarily, but it's like a cast album. He introduced me to the Les Miz cast album when I was about six or seven. I don't know why he thought that was the time to introduce me to Les Miz and musical theater. But he did. He printed out all the lyrics, so we had like this 40 page thick packet, and we would listen to the entire cast album of Les Miz, which is very long, on repeat, a lot.

Ben Curwin: I, I remember that. I think that's probably why I didn't like musical theater for so long. It's just because I was, my life was constantly being drowned out by the sound of Les Miz.

Jillian Curwin: Sorry.

Ben Curwin: You know I was actually think-, because I knew what I was going to ask you in advance so I've had time to prepare my answers because I'm devious that way. And I feel like if I'd asked, if I'd been asked this question a few years ago, I would have said something like Paradise by the Dashboard Light…

Jillian Curwin: Ooohhh.

Ben Curwin: Or something by Billy Joel, or really anything by Billy Joel. But honestly, I think maybe it's the, maybe being in Chicago for so long has rubbed off on me, but I think the song that I enjoy listening to the most because, you know, because he showed it to me, the song that reminds me of him the most is actually Bad, Bad Leroy Brown by Jim Croce. I love that song. It's just so fun and so simple. And I just remember him like, just shouting along to it in the car when we would go on drives.

Jillian Curwin: I will say my second choice is going to be We Didn’t Start The Fire by Billy Joel. That was going to be like the second…

Ben Curwin: Oh yeah.

Jillian Curwin: Because he one, sang that song on repeat, he made me look up every single thing that is mentioned.

Ben Curwin: Every single one. Every single reference, and that's, there's a lot of references in that song. It's a long song.

Jillian Curwin: I think that proves our father was a nerd.

Ben Curwin: Yeah. If people still need proof after listening to us, then that would be it.

Jillian Curwin: Right.

Ben Curwin: All right, so last one. Because like I said, this is going be shorter because we're both answering. Dad loved sports, he's why you and I each love the sports that we do love. What is your favorite sport related memory with Dad that isn't just not just like you and him playing catch or something, but like a sporting event that you guys went to together. I just don't want to specify what type of sport because I don't know which one it was, but baseball, football, whatever it was. Like, what was your favorite sport outing that you did with him?

Jillian Curwin: You go first. I need to think about this.

Ben Curwin: It's tough, right?

So I think mine would have to be, and this might be a cheating answer, because the only sport I really watch now is football. But I only started watching football really, after losing Dad, as a way to sort of remember him, because I did not like football growing up. I was very confused by it. I'm still very confused by it, but now I also enjoy it. So I didn't really do as much sports stuff with him, I think, as you did. But when I was 15, the U.S. Open for the PGA Tour was in Merion, in Pennsylvania. It was near us. And Dad was a volunteer there. He volunteered to work… I don't even know what he did. I think it was a different thing, but he was there all four days and he was so excited about it. And so two of the four days I went with him and I would just sort of, he would just like plant me at one hole or another as he went about doing his volunteer position. And then whenever he had a break, he would come and join me and we would just follow different golfers around for two days and just watch them golf. And he loved golf, and I had no patience at it, as a 15 year old boy for golf. But it was a very, I don't know, it was a beautifully fun day. We had a lot of good times together, just sort of wandering around. It's a beautiful golf course. So that's mine.

Jillian Curwin: I love that.

Ben Curwin: Top that.

Jillian Curwin: I don't know if I can. And I think the problem is, is because, like you said, like I think that was one thing that really did bond us, and like strengthened like I was into…Sports were an integral part of that father-daughter bond that we had. There is… I mentioned one which is him waking me up at two in the morning when the Red Sox won the World Series to take his photos as he popped champagne. Did he let me have any? Did he? I want to say no [laughter], actually, I want to say no. But honestly, I wouldn't have been surprised if he let me have some.

Ben Curwin: You were, you were nine.

Jillian Curwin: The Red Sox had just won the World Series for the first time in 80 plus years. I think he wanted me to celebrate.

Ben Curwin: I mean… Yeah, okay. 

Jillian Curwin: He woke me up at two in the morning, like on a school night.

Ben Curwin: Thankfully, he let me sleep.

Jillian Curwin: But… I don't know if it's…okay. So he, again, like I said, he came to a lot of the Tulane games when I was a manager or… not when I was a manager, I was a trainer. But I think it, and it's probably just because it's… the meaning behind this photo is so special and nobody would understand it unless they knew our father, is Tulane played Rutgers my sophomore year at Tulane. And so we went to Rutgers and my dad came to the game, of course, with a few of his law school buddies. And he, they sat on the Tulane side, and sat,, got close to the bench and everything. So like, I was talking to him. And there's a photo of him, it's a selfie, but the reason why he took it is because I'm standing over his shoulder. My back is to the camera. Again, my back is to the camera. I've no idea he's taking this photo. But the only reason he took this selfie is so that way he could have the two of us in frame, in the moment, kind of like him looking over my shoulder. And I think it's just, it's one of my favorite pictures that, again, unless you knew my father, like, you wouldn't understand why it's so special until hearing this story. So I think that's probably, even though, again, I wasn't even witnessing this moment, but the fact that it's captured like that, I think is just, kind of describes our dad perfectly.

Ben Curwin: Especially that it's a selfie. For a man who was like well into his fifties when selfies became a thing he really loved selfies.

Jillian Curwin: He loved selfies.

Ben Curwin: He really loved selfies.

Jillian Curwin: He really did.

Ben Curwin: Which is so funny because mom still hasn't figured out how to take one.

Jillian Curwin: No, she, she doesn’t. She she's a little… yeah. But there's so much more we could say about him, and I'm sure we'll have future episodes where we do talk about him. Again, we want to have an episode with my mom. But yeah, Daddy, we love you. We miss you. I think we say that on behalf of our immediate family, of my, you know, the three of us, on behalf of the Curwins, the Rotholz, is the Marcus, the Lobattos, the law school guys, the prosecutor like ev-...There's so many groups of people whose lives you've impacted in some way, and we love you and we miss you.

And this just popped into my head. So, normally we have our signoff, but I, and only if you're willing to share. If not, we can cut this out. And I'll just ask you to signoff. Would you mind, because he said this to you, so this is a you and him thing.

Ben Curwin: Oh.

Jillian Curwin: Would you mind signing off with what, I guess, with Dad’s signoff?

Ben Curwin: Yeah. So he would say to me, as I was leaving for middle school every day and then through high school, because he and I would be the last two left in the house in the morning, he would say, make today your masterpiece. So everyone who's listening right now go out and go out and do that. Make today and every day your masterpiece.

Jillian Curwin: Always Looking Up is hosted by Jillian Curwin and edited and produced by Ben Curwin. Please make sure to rate, review, and subscribe, and follow on Spotify so that you never miss an episode. Follow me on Instagram @jill_ilana and the podcast @alwayslookingup.podcast for updates and check out my blog, jillianilana.com, for more contents about what it is like to be a little person in an average sized world.

Thanks for listening. See you next week.

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